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post #21071 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by polariscipher View Post

I use two sticks, but even if something is wrong there it wouldn't affect the temps. I think I need to figure out what's wrong there before I continue to OC, because I'm getting up to 85 even on the stock clock. My setup is an H440 with 3 120mm fans as intake in the front, the Kraken x61 in a push configuration at the top as exhaust, and another fan as exhaust (I think it's a 140mm) in the rear.

I've reapplied the thermal paste recently, though I guess I could have done it poorly. I don't know how though, I used a small dot in the center which has always worked for me before and seems to be the recommended method. Using mx4 paste as well. As far as I'm aware the Kraken is working just fine, but putting the fans at 100% all the time doesn't help. Could my fan setup be causing the high temps? Or is there some conflict between my mobo and the Kraken software that's making the pump not run at full power? The rpm's on both the fan and pump are plenty high according to CAM. Anyway, I'm at a bit of a loss when it comes to the temps.

Do the line method. Dot method is more likely to have un-even spreading. Line method helps assure that the actual cpu-die is covered. Since the die is vertical and only going up the center that is actually the only area that needs covered. The outside left and right edge of the IHS do nothing so as long as you have the top to bottom in the center covered it is good. Also using more paste then you are supposed to is helpful. There is no reason to use less paste except to prevent a mess. MX-4 is non conductive so using extra wont hurt anything if you do happen to overflow. Really that's the only thing I can think of except maybe the pump not working correctly. Even without fans you should be getting better results with just the pump/rad, especially at stock.

Post thought: If you can't figure it out may want to ask here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/584302/ocn-water-cooling-club-and-picture-gallery
They have hundreds of people posting in there all the time so someone is bound to know more about your issue if it is related to the CLC.
Edited by dmfree88 - 8/10/16 at 4:22pm
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post #21072 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmfree88 View Post

Only thing I can really think of is poor thermal paste application or something wrong with your X61 if temps are that high. Might still be something in the bios you are missing. My air cooler pushes 4.8ghz no problem and is comparable to a 120mm rad. That 280mm you have even though it is a CLC it still should be more than powerful enough to push 4.8ghz. Maybe someone else can chime in but something is definitely wrong temperature-wise. You should be able to get stability at 4.7ghz though too so something else may be wrong. Definitely a headscratcher. Maybe someone with an Asus mobo will be aware of some features that are messing with you. Might be a combination of issues. How many ram sticks do you use? If you use more then one can try testing with just one stick then switch, might be faulty ram but that shouldn't mess with temps I wouldn't think. Look up all of the stock voltages and make sure most things are set to manual voltages. I know my ASRock board likes to up the vcore voltage even though the original VID was low on mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddangerous View Post

Are you sure that the cooler is 100% mounted evenly across the CPU IHS? The only reason I ask is someone I know was in a similar situation as you, and part of the mount for his h100i was bent (a screw that held the block onto the mounting plate I think) which caused uneven spread across the IHS, leading to high temps.

Also, sorry if I missed it in an earlier post from you, but were your temps this high prior to changing the paste recently?

What are your idle temps looking like right now?

Your coolant lines are fairly straight, no kinks?

Have you tried touching the radiator when the temps are up to see if it is actually warm? Maybe the coolant isn't circulating? Does the pump sound fine, any funny noises?

I can dig through the bios and see if there is anything for you to check in yours (I also have one of the ROG boards, which one do you have?), right now I can't think of anything offhand though.

Replying to both of you. I reseated and rearranged everything and my temps have improved by about 15 degrees under load. Idle is at high 20s - low 30s, and I've managed to get a stable 4.6 Ghz at 1.259v (why would the improved cooling allow me to lower the voltage required?). Under load on that I'm at about 70 degrees which I think is still a little high, but better than the 85 I was getting.

Still can't get to 4.7 even going up to 1.35v, I tried adjusting the SA up to 1.11 from stock at 1.10, and that didn't work. Though I'm not too familiar with adjusting that voltage, just read that upping it by .01 can help. As well as locking the input voltage to 1.85 (though auto has it at that anyway). Everything else is stock settings, and my ram is running at 1866Mhz.

I'm hesitant to start messing with voltages other than core, because I'm not too familiar with it, not knowing what order to test them in or how far to push. My temps again also seem high, so I may try and reseat yet again. But again, maybe those temps are fine in an H440 which I know isn't great for cooling.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far, lowering the voltage required for 4.6 is a win. Any thoughts on where to go from here?
post #21073 of 22605
Tweaking the ram and cache, seems to have helped. 4.9 is now stable at 1.37v instead of 1.405v. Can't get the cache stable at 4.6, it needs 1.3+v for that and I don't want to run the cache voltage that high.

And 4.8 at 1.3v
post #21074 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by polariscipher View Post


Replying to both of you. I reseated and rearranged everything and my temps have improved by about 15 degrees under load. Idle is at high 20s - low 30s, and I've managed to get a stable 4.6 Ghz at 1.259v (why would the improved cooling allow me to lower the voltage required?). Under load on that I'm at about 70 degrees which I think is still a little high, but better than the 85 I was getting.

Still can't get to 4.7 even going up to 1.35v, I tried adjusting the SA up to 1.11 from stock at 1.10, and that didn't work. Though I'm not too familiar with adjusting that voltage, just read that upping it by .01 can help. As well as locking the input voltage to 1.85 (though auto has it at that anyway). Everything else is stock settings, and my ram is running at 1866Mhz.

I'm hesitant to start messing with voltages other than core, because I'm not too familiar with it, not knowing what order to test them in or how far to push. My temps again also seem high, so I may try and reseat yet again. But again, maybe those temps are fine in an H440 which I know isn't great for cooling.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far, lowering the voltage required for 4.6 is a win. Any thoughts on where to go from here?

Interesting. Does still seem like fairly high temps but definitely much better. Seems like you are hitting some sort of temperature instability maybe? I am not sure if that is possible so someone can correct me if I am wrong but maybe it is harder to keep stable at the higher temperatures so when you got it to lower the temps it stabilized at a lower voltage? Doe's seem strange. Have you been monitoring all the core temps with something like hwinfo? If you have one core running at a higher temp then the rest the package might read 85c while one core is doing 95c+ and causing throttling/instability? It is fairly rare but I have heard of chips having such poorly applied thermal paste under the IHS that a single core could be getting poor heat dissipation. Delidding has become a much easier task nowadays there are some cheap tools to get the job done safely, that would definitely push you further as far as lowering temps and it usually fixes any hot core issues but of course that takes away your warranty if you still have one.

From what I have seen in here many people seem to have trouble with overclocking because of ram and cache. Bad stick can still cause some intermittent or stability issues. People sometimes have trouble achieving a high overclock using high mhz ram. I seem to have gotten pretty lucky myself I have a good chip and if I leave my ram at 2400 xmp profile enabled from day 1 I have had really no problems overclocking but I have tried tweaking ram and it was hell. DC seems to be finicky about ram and I have seen quite a few people post here with issues with it and overclocking. Might be worth looking into or at least lowering the clocks to see if that maybe effects it if you havent tried that already. Also the one stick thing or moving from one slot to another could be a ram slot with a bad pin or something. The only reason I could think it might effect temps is if it is somehow overloading the memory controller inside the CPU (not even sure if that's possible)
Edited by dmfree88 - 8/12/16 at 11:04am
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post #21075 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzzz View Post

Tweaking the ram and cache, seems to have helped. 4.9 is now stable at 1.37v instead of 1.405v. Can't get the cache stable at 4.6, it needs 1.3+v for that and I don't want to run the cache voltage that high.

And 4.8 at 1.3v

Interesting. What did you find +100mv on the PCH to help with, or was that an auto boost when you hit a certain cache/core voltage or frequency?

I'm reasonably certain I just stabilized some crazy tight tertiary ram timings and am hoping a trend I've noticed of lower WRRD specifically allowing lower voltages holds true.
post #21076 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by polariscipher View Post

(why would the improved cooling allow me to lower the voltage required?)

Fear mostly. If a chip gets hot it dies. Temperature is only a measure of that heat. Since that heat is unknown being your chip is still alive, there are only previous results to follow. This does not guarantee your chip wont die, nor that it will succeed. Only points out that if you have better cooling, it is easier to keep your chip cool.

Good luck with your temperatures and playing with volts.
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post #21077 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIXEDGREENS View Post

There's a website http://ramlist.i4memory.com/ddr3/ that seems to have died that had user submissions documenting the brand and model of chip used in various sets of RAM. If I weren't an idiot, I'd have made the effort to look at the serial # on my sticks to decipher which brand I had in my set. Instead, I just tried out some timings from a review of my set in which the reviewer had the Hynix brand which worked and ran with it.

Unfortunately I figured the voltages out through sheer experimentation after getting some guidelines from assorted forums on memory overclocking. Long story short: Hynix chips scale with vDIMM to roughly 1.9 and like/tolerate higher IO voltages. Samsung HYH9s (cheaper and not as good as HCH9s) peter out earlier and prefer lower IO volts. I noticed my ram gets squirrelly after 1.76v, tried to get it to hold timings tighter than cheap Hynix can, and then insulted myself a lot.

And yessir, I meant vcore. Sorry for vagueness. All auto/stock I need over 1.35 VID (1.37 vcore under load) to hold 46x. With XMP on (1600mhz 9-9-9-24) and tuned cache I can get stable right at 1.35v VID. At the moment I'm painstakingly tweaking RAM and lowering vcore as permitted + tweaking VCCIN and vRing as required, currently down to 1.315v VID. Thought I'd bottomed out until discovering WRRD's effect this morning. Doubt my entire system is stable at this vcore but I can at least take solace in knowing my final vcore will be much lower than what is required at stock.

Hey so I did some digging. Apparently that i4memory website is down. But I did a web archive search and was able to get to it (link for the curious: http://web.archive.org/web/20160315072842/http://ramlist.i4memory.com/ddr3/). Unfortunately, my kit (F3-2133C9Q-32GZH) was not on there. Doing some more digging, I found a thread on overclockers.com (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/732288-G-Skill-RipjawsZ-4x8GB-DDR3-2133-F3-2133C9Q-32GZH) for my kit with a picture of the IC showing Samsung HCH9, or more specifically model number K4B4G0846B. I found another thread on xtremesystems.org (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285767-DDR3-IC-thread), that gave details on the scalability of these ICs for voltage and temp. Long story short, there's not much hope for frequencies above 2400 or 2500MHz. I did pop open the case and checked out the serial number on my kit which had the 1500 in the same place as the kit from the thread in overclockers.com, so I think its reasonable to assume it has the same ICs.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I didn't really find anything about timings other than the standard three (tCL, tRCD, tRP) except for that the tRFC should be closer to 300 for higher frequency (XMP sets it to 278). Definitely interested in playing with this though as I've hit a voltage/thermal wall with my 4790k trying to get 4.9GHz stable. I can do 4.8GHz core @1.32vcore and 1.9vccin (4.4GHz uncore @1.2vring) but no luck with 4.9GHz core @ up to 1.43vcore. This is all currently on air. Trying to get an idea of what voltages I might need when I get my water cooling loop set up.

All that rambling, just thought that DDR3 IC thread might be helpful for some people who are looking to play with timings. It's pretty thorough and has lots of IC's for those who know what theirs is and wants to get an idea of what they can do.
post #21078 of 22605
Just a quick question. Does anyone have any idea how safe high DRAM voltages are for Micron ICs? I've been trying to find this info, but it seems it's nowhere. My RAM is quasi-stable at my current settings from 1.6V (pops a few errors after 2 hours of HCI Memtest) and fully stable at 1.65V, but giving it 1.75V seems to improve my general stability on the CPU side. I also decreased tWRRD to 17 from the 19 or 20 that it was at before and tightened tertiary timings a bit.

I would like to avoid over 1.75V, mostly because the number turns red in the BIOS after that and red is bad. tongue.gif
post #21079 of 22605
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIXEDGREENS View Post

No reason not to. What speed and primaries are you running? 2800mhz cas 11 seems just out of reach for mine at 1.74v, which is right at the voltage where they start getting cranky. mad.gif

In exciting news, I just hit HyperPi 4 x 32m 4.5ghz core at 1.25v VID, 35mv lower than I've ever had it even somewhat stable. 4.2ghz cache at 5mv under stock, and ddr3-2200 tight tertiaries with -64mv vSA, stock IOA, and +10mv IOD.



4.6ghz is next up. 4.4->4.5 took 40mv. If I can get 46x in 50mv or less, I might be looking at 47x daily/gaming stable. Not getting my hopes up though.

2133mhz 10-12-12-31/1t haven't touched other timings.
post #21080 of 22605
Interesting. IBT is definitely not a good stability test, neither is Realbench. I had tested IBT on custom with all of my ram loaded up with no errors, full Realbench runs with no errors. It has worked fine for the last couple months or so gaming mostly but yesterday I was running Netflix for my son and rendering mentalray images with Maya and it BSOD nearly everytime with both running. So now I upped to 1.244v (up from 1.232) at the same 4.8ghz and retested multiple images with Netflix running and no issues. I guess high definition rendering in Maya + Netflix = Better stability test then Realbench + IBT lol (which is strange because Realbench renders multiple images much faster then Maya under higher temps but I guess combining it with Netflix + a few browsers in chrome pushed it just right to cause BSOD).
Edited by dmfree88 - 8/13/16 at 4:44pm
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