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post #21111 of 22525
Lets just all agree that it's the fault of financialized monopoly capitalism. lol Or at least... maybe, from back when I worked for a OEM Intel essentially paid the competition to not sell AMD and finally we had to follow suit. to remain competitive. I remember the White House was pissed when their new computers wouldn't run the financial software they used to calculate the federal budget as as fast as their old Athlon systems. This was when we had to sell only P4 systems for the discount intel provided Intel exclusive OEMs. That was the first Clinton administration. That was a long long time ago, but they haven't been back to that market share since. Intel still hasn't paid their court ordered fine for that to AMD either. That has to hurt R&D too. Hopefully ZEN gets them closer to price/performance parity. Competing with both legs tied behind your back isn't real competition. I haven't run AMD since a few years after that time frame on CPUs because they haven't been able to catch back up after being kneecapped. Maybe we can have something better than a one-sided duopoly soon. Blaming AMD is short sighted.
post #21112 of 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by greytoad View Post

Intel still hasn't paid their court ordered fine for that to AMD either.

How does this still keep coming up. Intel paid AMD, in cash, within 6 months of the court case closing. What they haven't paid is the EU fine, which doesn't go to or benefit AMD in any way.
post #21113 of 22525
I didn't know that. Microsoft seems to ignore it's EU fines half the time too. I still think Intel got away with murder on that fine. As someone who had a close up view of the effect on our product offerings at the time, it was impossible for us to compete and offer AMD systems. We tried to continue but it hurt our bottom line and had to bow to Intel's pressure. Now that no one enforces monopoly laws in the US we're in this situation. Any market where one company has over 80 percent market share should be held to different standards for the benefit of consumers. That may not be a popular position in today's climate. I'd like to see Intel pay a small monopoly tax to AMD's R&D until real competition resumes. The advantages of monopoly are just too great for AMD to overcome without help. Monopolies are artificial things granted by the government's intellectual property rules. Either suspend the rules for market monopolies (open their intellectual property to everyone until there is competition) or accept fines. The current situation makes us pay more for less and isn't in the public interest.
post #21114 of 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by greytoad View Post

Lets just all agree that it's the fault of financialized monopoly capitalism. lol Or at least... maybe, from back when I worked for a OEM Intel essentially paid the competition to not sell AMD and finally we had to follow suit. to remain competitive. I remember the White House was pissed when their new computers wouldn't run the financial software they used to calculate the federal budget as as fast as their old Athlon systems. This was when we had to sell only P4 systems for the discount intel provided Intel exclusive OEMs. That was the first Clinton administration. That was a long long time ago, but they haven't been back to that market share since. Intel still hasn't paid their court ordered fine for that to AMD either. That has to hurt R&D too. Hopefully ZEN gets them closer to price/performance parity. Competing with both legs tied behind your back isn't real competition. I haven't run AMD since a few years after that time frame on CPUs because they haven't been able to catch back up after being kneecapped. Maybe we can have something better than a one-sided duopoly soon. Blaming AMD is short sighted.
let's not agree. As it is wrong. 100% wrong
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post #21115 of 22525
Maybe AMD will provide competition finally after all of these years on their own. That would be great. A duopoly still isn't ideal but I'd live with a real one. 60/40 or even 70/30 would be a little more healthy. Everyone used to understand that market monopolies create an unfair barrier to market to smaller competition. That used to be a given in basic free market ideology. I'm not saying I'm a free marketeer. I'm not saying it's all correct, but the government's rules are what grant monopolies. The government is supposed to govern in the public interest not the interest of the monopolists. It may even be better if they didn't govern at all in situations like this than what we have now. (Which would mean ending enforcement of intellectual property rights.)
post #21116 of 22525
Yea. Let's just agree that we don't agree. On anything. Leave it like that. Before we go into politics. Of which I can tell I do not agree on anything with you
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USS CLM8-1701
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R7970-2PMD3GD5/OC  R7970-2PMD3GD5/OC  F3-2400C10D-16GTX  OCZ Agility 3 120GB  
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OCZ Agility 3 120GB  Seagate Barracuda 1TB  Segate Barracuda 3TB Rosewill RCR-IM5001 USB2.0 75 in 1 internal Car... 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Pioneer BDR-208DBK Blu-ray Writer Swiftech H20-220 EDGE HD Liquid Cooling Kit Swiftech Komodo 7970 Swiftech MCP-35X2 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Swiftech MCP35X2 Heat Sink Swiftech MCP35X Reservoir Swiftech Komodo 7970 Swiftech Komodo 7970 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Alphacool 240mm XT45 Alphacool 120mm XT45 Alphacool 120mm UT60 FrozenQ PC Mods UV Meteor Light Limited Edition... 
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Koolance Radiator Mounting Bracket with Quick-R... Swiftech Komodo 7970 Windows 7 Windows 8  
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post #21117 of 22525
No problem. I don't really care enough about the problem to feel passionately about it. It's like swatting at mayflies. There are bigger issues in the world. Plus I can see how something like this would hurt the good people working at Intel too. I worked with some of their engineers. They really were one of the best companies to work with. (I haven't been in the industry in a long time)
post #21118 of 22525



Slow marching upwards.

45/43 was its typical huge jump in voltage from 44/42. I've had good luck with stability doing cache = core -2 multis at same voltage.

43x cache seems to be where its needing enough volts to start destabilizing memory volts. It's either that or I've hit a point where my core is overvolted enough to be destabilizing down the chain, as I know for a fact I'm closer to vcore needed for 46x than 45x.

Going to see if a little IOD helps lower vRing first, and if no love there it's see what kind of vcore I need for 46x and then I think I'll have done everything I can for this thing.
post #21119 of 22525
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIXEDGREENS View Post




Slow marching upwards.

45/43 was its typical huge jump in voltage from 44/42. I've had good luck with stability doing cache = core -2 multis at same voltage.

43x cache seems to be where its needing enough volts to start destabilizing memory volts. It's either that or I've hit a point where my core is overvolted enough to be destabilizing down the chain, as I know for a fact I'm closer to vcore needed for 46x than 45x.

Going to see if a little IOD helps lower vRing first, and if no love there it's see what kind of vcore I need for 46x and then I think I'll have done everything I can for this thing.

Ok, so first off, that is a 4690k, right? If so, 4 instances of HCI are alright, but I'd push it harder. Test 14GB of your RAM, max it out. It will be more thorough and it will do its thing faster.

Now, it seems to me that you use HCI to define CPU stability? If so, don't. Find where your RAM is stable and then work on your core or, preferably, work on your core and then mess with your RAM. x264/x265 stress test or RealBench are good tests that aren't unrealistically stressful to your CPU like Prime or OCCT or IBT. Also, AIDA64's stress test is garbage.

Other than that, both VCCSA and IO voltages seem too low. To get the most out of my CPU, I need about ~1V plus change VCCSA and about 1.15V IOD. I leave IOA voltage at IOD-0.05V just as a rule of thumb, as it seems to work fine that way. But never, never have I achieved more stability with too little of those. There may be a combination of settings that doesn't work and that would easily lead you to the conclusion that lower is better, but I don't think that's the case.

Also, screw that core-2 for the cache. Leave it at stock and mess with it last. You don't want too much voltage there. I wouldn't go over 1.25V, and even that would be pushing it for me. For maximum performance you'd preferably have your cache within 500MHz of your core, but that's about it. Finish your core and RAM overclocking and leave cache as the last.

For now, mine seems to do 4.8GHz at 1.305V just fine. Any lower and it's sketchy as all hell. Also, tWRRD at 16 introduced lots of instability, but increasing it to 17 solved it. Cache sits at 44x at 1.18V, chugging along for the time being. Also, my temps are crap because of the issues I have with my H110, so I'll have to revisit this when (If?) I fix that. Hope it goes well, because seeing previous results where I was getting like 75-78C max at over 1.35V during x265 stress test is nerve racking, because now I hit 85C at 1.3V. frown.gif
post #21120 of 22525
Dude. Whole point of this OC was superstable the RAM and see if it gains me any scaling headroom in my core OC, which so far it has. Stock cache VID is 1.21, so I'm not at +10% until ~1.35.

The more stable a memory OC is, the lower the necessary IO & SA volt boost. Trust me: I don't know everything, but I know this CPU pretty dang well. Doing p95 blend to test core (and system) OC. Just checking the RAM OC with each multi step up. The fact that it's this stable at what is close to this CPU's max reasonable OC at lowest IMC and cache volts I've ever needed is a huge accomplishment.
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