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[various] Intel Pentium G3258 (Anniversary Edition) Reviews - Page 180  

post #1791 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Once again, some games are already multi-threaded to the point where they use 8+ cores proving its possible to do it, new consoles are going to force developers to learn how to do it in one way or another regardless.
Its possible for me to produce a binary search that uses 32 threads, it doesn't mean it's more efficient.
Quote:
If level of control isn't an issue, why did DICE want Mantle for more console like coding? Why is Firaxis going on about the benefits of Mantle essentially being a much smaller driver allowing the dev more control over the hardware? ("Much of the work that drivers used to do on an application’s behalf is now the responsibility of the game engine. This means that the Mantle API is able to be backed by a very small, simple driver, which is thus considerably faster. It also means that this work, which must still be done, is done by someone with considerably more information. Because the engine knows exactly what it will do and how it will do it, it is able to make design decisions that drivers could not.") Both of their games are ones that use 4+ cores, too...It might not directly help with multi-threading but having more freedom in how the engine works (ie. Drivers being much smaller and games picking up more of that work) should help in some ways.
You were mistaking a low level API allowing greater GPU control / reducing CPU for facilitating better multithreading. That's not really the case, they're two separate things.
Quote:
Remind me, how long have the PS4 and Xbox One been out? Were you complaining about how graphics hadn't really moved on far from PS2 level graphics in 2006-2007? It usually takes 2-3 years for games to start fully taking advantage of new consoles and stop being ported to old ones...You're essentially expecting what I said to happen overnight and saying it's crap because of that. You can bet by the time this generation is over that most developers will have at least a basic form of 4+ core multi-threading in their games simply because they'll have to. Especially since some games already make the Pentium a stuttery mess even when OCed...You might have decent averages but any dual core is going to have significant performance drops, even in games that are just threaded to use 2 cores. Games are still held back by last generations consoles and will continue to be for the next couple years just like every cycle. (Seriously, compare Oblivion to Skyrim on the 360 then remember both are on the exact same hardware and that's with Oblivion not even getting a port to the previous generation)
I was pretty wowed by the 7th gens right out of the gate so that isn't the best of examples.
Quote:
You're doing the same argument that people say against Linux gaming which essentially comes down to "But it hasn't happened yet so it'll never happen!", completely ignoring the fact that the trends tend to support it starting to take off (BF4, Crysis 3, SupCom, FSX, Civ V, etc) even if it isn't going to be a short or simple process. While a quad core is more than likely going to be fine for this entire generation, a dualie even as fast as this Pentium is really only appropriate if you plan to play a few weaker games, don't mind that you might have to turn down a few settings or plan to upgrade/have a faster chip and the Pentium to muck around with anyway.
Listen, multithreading will advance but its not going to be easy any time soon, especially well threaded games. Where performance scales with cores and each core is seeing significant usage.

We know Watchdogs is barely using 8 cores for example. Its nice that you dumped the ticking of the number of people killed variable to a separate thread but that doesn't exactly boost performance.

Multithreading ain't easy and though software devs are moving forward its still VERY difficult to multithread something let alone do it well.

The point wasn't look these things aren't advancing so they will never, it was that they're not advancing because there are reasons hindering it.

Again, write some multithreaded code. Then try doing it for a game engine. Have fun learning!
Edited by iSlayer - 8/14/14 at 10:00am
 
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post #1792 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

I sometimes have core temp program running and I think that would tell you how many cores a program or game is using

You can get a really good idea just from looking at task manager performance tab (update frequency set to max) - on w7, at least
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post #1793 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by daviejams View Post

Watchdogs not use 6 cores ? The watchdogs benchmark on the G3258 is pretty poor

Take a look at this.


In my performance analysis the 3rd thread worked wonders!
http://www.overclock.net/t/1491602/watch-dogs-2gb-vram-performance-analysis-and-graphics-337-88-driver-improvement
post #1794 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

You can get a really good idea just from looking at task manager performance tab (update frequency set to max) - on w7, at least
It would be best if you found the task that the game uses. Watch to see what the maximum CPU usage is. Skyrim = 50% on quad cores, 75% on PlanetSide 2, etc...

Now I'm going to stop posting these things. I have a feeling I'm getting on the nerves of some people.
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post #1795 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcEsSalvation View Post

I can pitch in on Civ 5, it does not use 8 threads. I never get above 75% usage on a quad core or 37% on an octo core. IIRC, BF4 and Crysis 3 only use 6 threads - two of them are not really needed, and I thought (not sure) that BF3 only used 4 threads. Not sure about SupCom or FSX though. Now, are you looking at Task Manager and seeing that X cores are being used? If so, that is wrong. There has only been one application that I have ever seen that accurately displays true per-core usage. It was the updater for Heroes of Newerth which shows one core being loaded to 100%.
The real way to check how many threads a game uses is to make sure you are not having a GPU bottleneck and looking at the CPU usage being used by the task itself. An easy example would be to look at Skyrim. It's task will only use 25% max of an octo core chip, because it's dual threaded. However, it may show that 6 of my threads are being used in task manager.
WD only uses four threads.

EDIT: Looks like Crysis 3 uses four threads. Brutuz, that difference in frame rate between the octo and quad core variant is the shared resources that the quad core has to do. Since it has four cores that are in CMT, they lose a little bit of performance when two cores of the same module are being used. The octo core variant didn't experience that.

Have you ever ran large games with mods and plenty of Civs? I max out my i5 easily. It's typically GPU limited, however...Unless you're trying to say that a i7 990X is faster than a 2600k in something that uses <4 threads. (Look at the no-render score) Hell, even a 3.3Ghz 6 Core Phenom II is beating a 3.6Ghz Quad core Phenom II there...extra cache doesn't make that much of a difference in Civ V.

As for Crysis 3, Why is there a clear trend to more cores being faster here? Or here? I know I also saw a review showing an i7 3770k getting a good 20fps increase over an i5 3570k as of patch 1.3...BF4 is also tuned for more threads than 2, it might not need 8 right now but that's because it's not completely next-gen yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSlayer View Post

Its possible for me to produce a binary search that uses 32 threads, it doesn't mean it's more efficient.

Yet SupCom runs very well, and there's FPS improvements to various games (See above for Crysis 3 and Civ V benchmarks) clearly coming from increased cores and not slightly more cache or slightly higher clocks.

You were mistaking a low level API allowing greater GPU control / reducing CPU for facilitating better multithreading. That's not really the case, they're two separate things.

You're not understanding what I'm trying to say, I'm not going to try and reword it again.

I was pretty wowed by the 7th gens right out of the gate so that isn't the best of examples.

Skyrim vs Oblivion, same hardware and similar performance levels yet Skyrim looks ridiculously better. Point still stands, it takes 2-3 years for games to really start taking advantage of the new hardware.

Listen, multithreading will advance but its not going to be easy any time soon, especially well threaded games. Where performance scales with cores and each core is seeing significant usage.

We know Watchdogs is barely using 8 cores for example. Its nice that you dumped the ticking of the number of people killed variable to a separate thread but that doesn't exactly boost performance.

Multithreading ain't easy and though software devs are moving forward its still VERY difficult to multithread something let alone do it well.

The point wasn't look these things aren't advancing so they will never, it was that they're not advancing because there are reasons hindering it.

Again, write some multithreaded code. Then try doing it for a game engine. Have fun learning!

Then we're agreeing here, I'm saying that it's going to happen sooner rather than later simply because devs will need to in order to get the most out of the consoles like they've done with every weird bit of hardware like the N64 and PS3 among others. There's already some games showing it and adoption is only speeding up.
    
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post #1796 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

As for Crysis 3, Why is there a clear trend to more cores being faster here? Or here?
Tom's is kind of broken on my computer. NoScript does that to some sites tongue.gif
As for TechSpot, I'm seeing an i5 4FPS behind an i7, and the i7 is clocked higher. That i5 also has the same frame rate as an octo core from AMD (clocked higher but lower IPC balances it out). Finally, a quad core from AMD with lower frame rate than the octo although it's at a higher frequency - that's because of the shared resources. I'm still not seeing the 'more than four threads help' proof here. If you look a little further down, you can see a higher clocked quad Phenom II beating a lower clocked hex Phenom II. If the game was for sure able to use 6 threads, that hex core would beat that quad, even with the clock speed offset.
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post #1797 of 1829
IuFOC01.png

It can be higher than 4 fps. Honestly, I'd put that down to an apparent GPU bottleneck in at least some of their testing more than anything. There's barely any average FPS increase between CPUs that are definitely faster.
    
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post #1798 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


As for Crysis 3, Why is there a clear trend to more cores being faster here? Or here?

Tom's Hardware and Tech Spot did not use the same part of the game

Tom's Hardware used "Welcome to the Jungle" which is known for being very CPU dependent
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post #1799 of 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It can be higher than 4 fps. Honestly, I'd put that down to an apparent GPU bottleneck in at least some of their testing more than anything. There's barely any average FPS increase between CPUs that are definitely faster.
Again, minor difference between Phenom II and the higher clocked BD. Slightly higher avg and a bit higher FPS between hex with HT and quad w/o. That can be caused by the higher turbo clock. Higher clock 8350 is in same league as the locked i5. If this game could use ore than four threads, the 8350 would have pulled ahead of the i5.

The best way to tell how many threads this game uses is to watch something like Task Manager and see how much the actual task uses. If it's anything higher than 50% on an eight thread CPU, then we have our answer.
Edited by AcEsSalvation - 8/16/14 at 7:32am
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post #1800 of 1829
has anyone managed to oc the G3258 on a H97 Gigabyte motherboard? I own the H97N WIFI and with the latest BIOS we get access to new menu items, and I managed to get the multiplier set to 47, I can see a range from 8 to 47 in CPU-Z, but the CPU will never reach it, it is stuck at stock value... any ideas?
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