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Fx 6300 w/ 970 -G46 MSI (Playing it safe!) - Page 2

post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryWifeBeater View Post

Alright that makes sense. I will follow your suggestion and disable turbo and run the cpu at 4.0. I have some questions to ask before I do that.
Can I do this right in the bios? What will the voltage go to if I set the clock via multiplier to 4.0 ghz and turn off turbo boost?

Will the cpu be damaged if the clock stays at 4.0 ghz the whole time? Every time I manually set a cpu clock, task manager shows that the cpu clock doesn't go below that rate even though it says the cpu load is only like 5% for ex.

If the voltage the setting the clock at 4.0 ghz manually is too high, what do you recommend I put for the P2 voltage state @ 4.0ghz.

And final one, will this damage my mobo/cpu because I will be running it at 4.0 and my cpu has never gone past 3.8-9 EVER. I'm guessing it will not damage because i will be undervolting right?
Temperatures are not even a miniscule concern for me. At 3.8 ghz the cpu is never going past 44C

Thanks for all your help!

The CPU won't be damaged, it's made to be able to go up to 4.1Ghz turbo with more voltage, out of factory. Overclockers here bring it to 5Ghz. Simply, a CPU at 4Ghz-1.3v, will run at full load hotter than 3.5Ghz-1.23v. It's more about the motherboard's temps you should worry, not the CPU.

If the CPU clock doesn't drop, you have either disabled something in BIOS or running "high performance" power plan in Windows. In Windows, you need "balanced" power plan. Then, in BIOS, you need to have enabled: Cool N Quiet, C1, C6.

Each chip, can hit 4Ghz, at different volts. Mine needs 1.34v inside Windows (you need to get CPU-Z and see the voltage it reports when at load). Every motherboard is different. For instance, in yours, if you put in BIOS 1.34v, in CPU-Z, you may see 1.36 or 1.30. I don't know. But with 1.34v in CPU-Z, you should be guaranteed to hig 4Ghz stable. MOST likely though, your CPU is better than mine and you can hit 4Ghz, for even less. Many need 1.28-1.284v for 4Ghz. The lower your chip can go, the better, because both CPU and motherboard, will heat less.

As soon as you disable turbo core, the motherboard, automatically, will use a stock voltage for "non turbo" conditions This will be anywhere from 1.28 to 1.36v. From what we know, ALWAYS, at that "auto" voltage, the FX6300 can hit 4Ghz stable. BUT, you usually can go lower as i said, so you gain less heat.

The heat, depends on the load. You can stay forever at 4Ghz and be at 40C. If you do something very intensive though that loads 100% all cores, you may go to 60C. But, the motherboard, should be able to tolerate it. The higher voltage is much more stressful to the motherboard, than the higher clock. So, if you keep your voltage low and you raise the clock, it's less stressful for the motherboard, than keeping the voltage high and your clock at 3.5.

Simply, the motherboard you have, isn't the best in the world. But, what i say, is within it's "stock" limits. The important, is to stress test to find the minimum voltage you need to keep stable at 4Ghz. You can use OCCT/ IBT AVX (in the first page of the thread for Vishera owners/Linx/Prime95). These load 100% the CPU and very hard. For normal programs you will never stress so hard your CPU/mobo. Temperatures will also go up, but this is the worst case scenario. These programs draw up to 25W more than the most intense "normal" programs. Once you know you 're stable at say, 4Ghz@ 1.30v, you keep that value.

To do what i said, you only need to disable APM and Turbo in BIOS. All the other power related features (Cool n quiet, C1, C6), should be enabled, so that your CPU can drop frequency to 1400 mhz when idle.
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post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryWifeBeater View Post

Alright man I set the cpu multiplier to 20 in the bios and didn't change a single setting after that (turned off turbo boost also)
Its showing that the P2 state is at 1.3 volts in the program you linked. That's perfect right? I don't need to make any modifications do i?

http://i.imgur.com/8Bk8iF4.png

The only problem is if you look at task manager, the CPU is stuck at 3.96 ghz regardless of what % the cpu utilization is at. This means the cpu will ALWAYS operate at 1.3v. How can i fix that from happening?

The photo shows that the principle is sound, you have the 4Ghz at 1.3v set in BIOS. BUT, the task manager isn't enough info. You need to see what CPU-Z will show under stress. What you input in BIOS, isn't necessarily what the motherboard will give under load (which is the effective in Windows).

The "stuck" clock at 4Ghz, as i said, is either you have put "high performance" power profile in Windows power management or you 've disabled some power features in BIOS. You only need disabled APM and Turbo. If the rest is at default, the CPU should drop to 1400mhz as idle.

And you need to stress test to verify that you are stable at 4Ghz.
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post #13 of 25
To give an example. My CPU, as i said, needs 1.34v to hit 4Ghz stable. BUT, in BIOS, the value is 1.2875v. Simply my motherboard, has tendency to overshoot. But the CPU, understands that in WIndows, it needs "1.34v". That's the EFFECTIVE voltage. You need to adjust accordingly, to your CPU's needs.

For instance.
You set 1.30v and in Windows under stress, CPU-Z shows 1.35v. Most likely, you need to go back in BIOS and reduce the value 1 notch. And stress again. Go low to the point of instability, then raise 1 notch and that's your final value.

Or, the opposite. You put 1.30v in BIOS, but the motherboard, gives effective 1.27v under stress in CPU-Z and you see you can't pass stress test. Go back to BIOS, raise 1 notch and repeat. Still can't pass the stress test? Raise 1 more notch.

But the EFFECTIVE voltage in CPU-Z under stress, will most probably be somewhere betweeen 1.28v and 1.34v. But depends on the silicon lottery of the CPU. The lower your CPU can go, the better. Less heat, less stress on motherboard.
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post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

The photo shows that the principle is sound, you have the 4Ghz at 1.3v set in BIOS. BUT, the task manager isn't enough info. You need to see what CPU-Z will show under stress. What you input in BIOS, isn't necessarily what the motherboard will give under load (which is the effective in Windows).

The "stuck" clock at 4Ghz, as i said, is either you have put "high performance" power profile in Windows power management or you 've disabled some power features in BIOS. You only need disabled APM and Turbo. If the rest is at default, the CPU should drop to 1400mhz as idle.

And you need to stress test to verify that you are stable at 4Ghz.

Previously C1 support was off but my clocks were changing when I had turbo boost on. I turned C1 support on and C6 was already enabled. I cannot find the Cool n Quiet option. The only stuff I have is CPU Smart Protection and that is enabled.

I was running in High Perf before and so I switched to Balanced and rebooted still no change in clocks.

Any other suggestions on what to do for this problem? It would suck to have to turn turbo boost back on because the stupid clocks won't go down.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryWifeBeater View Post

Previously C1 support was off but my clocks were changing when I had turbo boost on. I turned C1 support on and C6 was already enabled. I cannot find the Cool n Quiet option. The only stuff I have is CPU Smart Protection and that is enabled.

I was running in High Perf before and so I switched to Balanced and rebooted still no change in clocks.

Any other suggestions on what to do for this problem? It would suck to have to turn turbo boost back on because the stupid clocks won't go down.

You 're the first case we 've seen that can't drop frequency. Unfortunately i haven't seen MSI BIOS in ages. Try this. Load BIOS defaults. It should reset back to default. Make sure that the clock drops. Go back in and do again the same stuff (disable APM, disable Turbo, set vcore manually). See if it solves the situation. It's odd that C1 was off. It's not supposed to be off.

AM3 motherboards had a problem like the one you describe. Once the turbo was disabled, the Cool N Quiet was stopping. But we 've seen no AM3+ with this.

Another thing you could do, is disable APM, but enable Turbo. BUT, in turbo configuration, you have to manully put 4Ghz. See if that works. It probably won't, since turbo wants APM enabled, but it may trick your motherboard, i don't know.

If nothing works, i don't know. Either MSI has some odd BIOS voice that no other has or it's the only AM3+ motherboard that can't drop to 1400 when overclocked... I 've done this procedure in Asrock and Gigabyte motherboard of my own and work fine. Even the overclockers in this forum, go to 4.7Ghz and are still able to drop to 1400.

The fact that you don't find Cool N Quiet in BIOS is puzzling...

I don't know... I never had good relations with MSI...
Edited by Undervolter - 7/12/14 at 8:25am
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post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

You 're the first case we 've seen that can't drop frequency. Unfortunately i haven't seen MSI BIOS in ages. Try this. Load BIOS defaults. It should reset back to default. Make sure that the clock drops. Go back in and do again the same stuff (disable APM, disable Turbo, set vcore manually). See if it solves the situation. It's odd that C1 was off. It's not supposed to be off.

AM3 motherboards had a problem like the one you describe. Once the turbo was disabled, the Cool N Quiet was stopping. But we 've seen no AM3+ with this.

Another thing you could do, is disable APM, but enable Turbo. BUT, in turbo configuration, you have to manully put 4Ghz. See if that works. It probably won't, since turbo wants APM enabled, but it may trick your motherboard, i don't know.

If nothing works, i don't know. Either MSI has some odd BIOS voice that no other has or it's the only AM3+ motherboard that can't drop to 1400 when overclocked... I 've done this procedure in Asrock and Gigabyte motherboard of my own and work fine. Even the overclockers in this forum, go to 4.7Ghz and are still able to drop to 1400.

The fact that you don't find Cool N Quiet in BIOS is puzzling...

I don't know... I never had good relations with MSI...

Yup I got it. If I change my multiplier from Auto to x, the board is sitting at that frequency always. I guess I can't overclock on my board lol. I will try to change the voltages for turbo and hopefully that will lift some strain from my motherboard.

Put the multiplier back to "Auto" and running at 3.5 ghz and the clocks are fluctuating like normal again.
Edited by AngryWifeBeater - 7/12/14 at 8:32am
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryWifeBeater View Post

Yup I got it. If I change my multiplier from Auto to x, the board is sitting at that frequency always. I guess I can't overclock on my board lol. I will try to change the voltages for turbo and hopefully that will lift some strain from my motherboard.

Seriously? As soon as you change multi you lose Cool N Quiet? Wow! And some wonder why i joined the MSI hate club... This hasn't happened since AM3 era motherboards. On my cheap ASrock 970 i went all the way to 4.5Ghz and i was still dropping to 1400Mhz.

The you have 2 options:

1) Disable turbo, leave multi to auto, and undervolt at 3.5Ghz (stock). You should need around 1.23v in CPU-Z. Stress test to see stability, adjust BIOS value accordingly.

2) Find your lowest stable vcore value for 4.1Ghz and put it to BIOS, enable turbo. It will still be lower than 1.425v, that your motherboard likes to give at stock turbo. Simply this voltage will also be given to 3.5Ghz too, which is a real shame, as it's too much.

You have my deepest sympathies, your motherboard wins the "regression" award, for behaving like the AM3 motherboard did.
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post #18 of 25
I have a friend using that board and cpu for the last year. He runs it at 4.2ghz. Rather mild for fx6300 but it's holding up well. Put a 80mm fan on the vrms and stay 4.2ghz or below.
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post #19 of 25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

To give an example. My CPU, as i said, needs 1.34v to hit 4Ghz stable. BUT, in BIOS, the value is 1.2875v. Simply my motherboard, has tendency to overshoot. But the CPU, understands that in WIndows, it needs "1.34v". That's the EFFECTIVE voltage. You need to adjust accordingly, to your CPU's needs.

For instance.
You set 1.30v and in Windows under stress, CPU-Z shows 1.35v. Most likely, you need to go back in BIOS and reduce the value 1 notch. And stress again. Go low to the point of instability, then raise 1 notch and that's your final value.

Or, the opposite. You put 1.30v in BIOS, but the motherboard, gives effective 1.27v under stress in CPU-Z and you see you can't pass stress test. Go back to BIOS, raise 1 notch and repeat. Still can't pass the stress test? Raise 1 more notch.

But the EFFECTIVE voltage in CPU-Z under stress, will most probably be somewhere betweeen 1.28v and 1.34v. But depends on the silicon lottery of the CPU. The lower your CPU can go, the better. Less heat, less stress on motherboard.

Hey here is my config I'm using right now:
http://i.imgur.com/6Ac7vfl.png

The system feels stable but I need to run PRime 95 later on to confirm. I have question, why does hwmon show the voltage at 1.456 even though my set voltage for p0 is only 1.37 and I set the same in the bios?
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryWifeBeater View Post

Hey here is my config I'm using right now:
http://i.imgur.com/6Ac7vfl.png

The system feels stable but I need to run PRime 95 later on to confirm. I have question, why does hwmon show the voltage at 1.456 even though my set voltage for p0 is only 1.37 and I set the same in the bios?

The values look in order. A bit higher than i would expect, but i supposed you did i what i wrote earlier and observed the final voltage in CPU-Z. Your motherboard likely drops voltage. If you stress tested all P-States you should be good...

The 1.456v looks out of place. Did you keep turbo enabled or disabled?

Two probable things:

1) You didn't make the batch file to boot with Windows and you are still running the stock values (if the new values are rightly in place, after your reboot, PSCheck should show the same values as in the one in the screenshot you provided).

2) HWMonitor is misreading (it happens). It's better to observe voltage with CPU-Z when under stress.

For a quick stress test of each P-State, IBT AVX Very High or Maximum is better than Prime. At least you know within minutes if you are greatly unstable or not. Prime takes it time.

BTW, thanks to your case, which forced me to see how to run with turbo enabled, i now also run with undervolted turbo too. biggrin.gif
Edited by Undervolter - 7/13/14 at 11:05am
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Main
(16 items)
 
Dedicated Encoder
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8320@4Ghz Gigabyte 970 UD3P rev2.1 Gainward GTX 750Ti Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 16GB (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveOptical Drive
Crucial BX100 250GB Western Digital Green 2TB LiteOn Blu-Ray Burner IHBS 112-2 LG BH16NS55 Blu-Ray Burner 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Scythe Katana 3 Windows 7 Pro 64bit ASUS 22" VS228HR Microsoft Wired Keyboard 600 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
EVGA 430W Sharkoon VG4-V Logitech M90 Onboard 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8300 Asrock 970 Extreme3 HIS 6570 Silence Corsair XMS3 1600Mhz 8GB (2x4GB) CAS9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Plextor M6S 128GB Toshiba 2TB SATAIII LiteOn Blu Ray burner IHBS 112-2 Xigmatek Balder 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Pro 64bit Samsung S22B350H Microsoft Wired 600 Corsair VS350 
CaseMouseAudio
Lepa LPC 306 Logitech M90 Onboard 
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