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post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

How about the PSU? How about we ask some of our experts: @twerk
and @Phaedrus2129
: do you think that the CX500 for $29.99 is a bad choice for this build, which is just a simple office computer?
It's not $29.99. It's $49.99 with a $20 MIR. You don't subtract the MIR from what you actually pay, that isn't how it works; you just mail in the forms and hope you get the 20 dollars back, as was previously explained. Personally I hate MIR deals for this exact reason, that they get advertised with the MIR deducted when you don't do that. It's hassle that typically doesn't yield results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Noisy operation? Again, this is going to be a simple office computer. The CPU will probably never have that much of a load on it, and so therefore the stock fan won't ever need to spin up to audible or irritating levels.
It's easy to neglect cleaning the guts of a system, especially an office rig. A moderate amount of dust WILL send that stock fan into overdrive even at idle, I've worked on rigs belonging to family friends with that exact dilemma. A quick dusting and the fan shut right up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I know that I didn't answer this in the same order that you posted your points, but I didn't go into this with the intention of covering all 3 of them. Disagree all you want, but you are completely ignoring the fact that this is going to be a simple office PC. You're acting like she's going to be doing some heavy gaming and even some overclocking. I mean, for cryin' out loud, man: relax!
He's definitely relaxed, he doesn't need to be told to relax. It's better to invest a little more so things run smoother longer, but ultimately that will be Modus' decision.
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post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

How about the PSU? How about we ask some of our experts: @twerk
and @Phaedrus2129
: do you think that the CX500 for $29.99 is a bad choice for this build, which is just a simple office computer?
It's not $29.99. It's $49.99 with a $20 MIR. You don't subtract the MIR from what you actually pay, that isn't how it works; you just mail in the forms and hope you get the 20 dollars back, as was previously explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

Noisy operation? Again, this is going to be a simple office computer. The CPU will probably never have that much of a load on it, and so therefore the stock fan won't ever need to spin up to audible or irritating levels.
It's easy to neglect cleaning the guts of a system, especially an office rig. A moderate amount of dust WILL send that stock fan into overdrive even at idle, I've worked on rigs belonging to family friends with that exact dilemma. A quick dusting and the fan shut right up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

I know that I didn't answer this in the same order that you posted your points, but I didn't go into this with the intention of covering all 3 of them. Disagree all you want, but you are completely ignoring the fact that this is going to be a simple office PC. You're acting like she's going to be doing some heavy gaming and even some overclocking. I mean, for cryin' out loud, man: relax!
He's definitely relaxed, he doesn't need to be told to relax. It's better to invest a little more so things run smoother longer, but ultimately that will be Modus' decision.

 

It's for a simple office computer. Let's get real here.

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It's a computer!
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post #13 of 27
Just saying "let's get real" isn't helping. If you've made your point, then wait for more input from the one you're actually trying to help. Going in circles isn't going to help, either, so let's just be patient.
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post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Just saying "let's get real" isn't helping. If you've made your point, then wait for more input from the one you're actually trying to help. Going in circles isn't going to help, either, so let's just be patient.

 

But let's think about what I've recommended here: if we go with what I'm recommending, then the total cost of mdocod's build is reduced by $101.80 to $431.43 which is below the $500 budget - not above it, and he did say "the lower the better". It's going to be a simple office computer, so I don't see the need to recommend a high-quality PSU, 8 GB of memory and aftermarket cooling!

 

Quite honestly Chunky_Chimp, I'm very surprised that you would agree 100% with mdocod on this. Ok, so maybe we recommend aftermarket cooling, thereby raising the $431.43 by $23, but beyond that I see no reason to get the best PSU possible and to get 8 GB of memory - for a simple office computer.

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post #15 of 27
I never outright stated I agreed with mdocod. I would debate a bit about the RAM requirements and likely say 4GB is good enough, and for an office environment it usually is. But a better PSU will cause fewer long-term problems, it isn't that much more, and there IS cheap compact aftermarket cooling that would permit a lower fan speed almost all the time compared to stock. At the end of the day, even the simplest rigs end up being investments, so you're better off putting a bit more into it even if you're 30-40 dollars over budget. If Modus disagrees with that, that's his decision with his money and we should respect that.
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post #16 of 27
Going to see what I can build in a second here... One thing I can say though is that the stock HSF for an A8 requires cleaning ATLEAST once every 2-3 months, or it'll hit 100c(what HWMonitor reports) in even some moderate load games. I could easily see the fan maxing out, and perhaps even getting to that point of causing thermal shutdowns if the heatsink isn't cleaned atleast once a year.
Edited by Alanim - 7/15/14 at 3:21am
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post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

I never outright stated I agreed with mdocod. I would debate a bit about the RAM requirements and likely say 4GB is good enough, and for an office environment it usually is. But a better PSU will cause fewer long-term problems, it isn't that much more, and there IS cheap compact aftermarket cooling that would permit a lower fan speed almost all the time compared to stock. At the end of the day, even the simplest rigs end up being investments, so you're better off putting a bit more into it even if you're 30-40 dollars over budget. If Modus disagrees with that, that's his decision with his money and we should respect that.

 

I have seen lots and lots of posts on here from people telling me that they have absolutely ZERO problems with their CX500 and CX600 even though they are using their rig for gaming and even some overclocking. So what makes you think the CX500 wouldn't be just fine for a simple office PC? It's $29.99 after the rebate, plus going with that 4 GB kit means that the savings are very nice and keeps the cost below $500. That sounds great to me, especially since he said "but the cheaper the better".

 

What problems could come up by using the CX500 for a simple office computer? Seriously, I sincerely doubt that ANY problems would be created. It's not like I'm recommending a Diablotek PSU. Give me a break.

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It's a computer!
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post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

lol you're acting like she's going to be doing some hefty stuff with this computer. So, ok, let's ask. Shall we? Ok.
"hefty stuff" has nothing to do with it. A quality made quiet running computer is a good thing regardless of what it is used for.
Quote:
Also, will she ever be doing enough multitasking to need more than 4 GB of memory?
4GB of RAM is not 4GB of available system memory in an APU build. VRAM is subtracted from system memory. By default BIOS will allocate 512-1024MB to the iGPU. Windows boots, that's another 1+GB gone.

Your suggesting a system configuration where ~HALF of the system memory will be used before the machine is even doing anything besides being booted up. Seems like sort of a waste to me to have so little memory space to work in.
Quote:
Before we get the answer, mdocod, I want to tell you something: even though I have 8 GB of memory, I never see any more than 2 GB being used while doing office-like stuff with my computer. So, you can argue "8 GB" all you want, but I am willing to bed that 8 GB would be absolutely unnecessary overkill.
10 tabs open in chromium, each with pretty "common" type stuff in them (some forum pages, a google search, newegg home, google maps, local weather, a few wiki pages, etc) = ~2000MB memory usage. (just for chromium!!! Not including the kernel, kernel modules, drivers, or any of the system services running!)

What's the point of having a desktop with the screen real-estate to be able to do real office-multitasking effectively (which OFTEN involves web research involving many tabs), if the machine doesn't have enough memory to do it smoothly?
Quote:
How about the PSU? How about we ask some of our experts: @twerk
and @Phaedrus2129
: do you think that the CX500 for $29.99 is a bad choice for this build, which is just a simple office computer?
$50. $50. $50. Stop misrepresenting the price. MIRs aren't money, they are a waste of time.
Quote:
Maybe we should make a thread so that people can post their experiences with the CX500 powering simple computers like this. I can tell you right now that I've already seen such posts, and I know for a fact based on everything I've seen on here that the CX500 is MUCH more than good enough for a computer like this.
Yes, the CX500 will power this machine, nobody is debating that. The issue is that there are nicer quality PSUs to choose from for $10-20 more.
Quote:
Noisy operation? Again, this is going to be a simple office computer. The CPU will probably never have that much of a load on it, and so therefore the stock fan won't ever need to spin up to audible or irritating levels.
There is no throttle in place by default to prevent the CPU from racing to finish tasks at high turbo speeds, and it will. Every time a web page is rendered (which is in fact, a compute intensive task), the CPU will hit high turbo speeds, call for more cooling, and fire up the small high RPM fan on the stock cooler. I"m not making this up. I actually own one of these APUs and have actually used it on the OEM cooler. It's noisy and annoying.
Quote:
I know that I didn't answer this in the same order that you posted your points, but I didn't go into this with the intention of covering all 3 of them. Disagree all you want, but you are completely ignoring the fact that this is going to be a simple office PC. You're acting like she's going to be doing some heavy gaming and even some overclocking. I mean, for cryin' out loud, man: relax!
I am embracing the fact that it wouldn't matter if the machine were going to be built for office work or media work or gaming or development or enterprise or whatever, I would not aim for the bare minimum for any of them. I can't find any rationale in shooting for the bare minimum in PC building, as that never saves time or money in the long run.
     
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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoCables View Post

What problems could come up by using the CX500 for a simple office computer? Seriously, I sincerely doubt that ANY problems would be created. It's not like I'm recommending a Diablotek PSU. Give me a break.
You need to think long-term here, better internal components means longer life for the unit as a whole. I used to be on board with the idea that by the time the cheap thing dies you can afford a nice thing, but again, that's past. It's not something I can agree on these days.
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(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 D0 (Batch # 3901A240) Foxconn X58 Blood Rage (non-GTI) eVGA GeForce GTX670 2GB 6GB Corsair Dominator 1.6GHz TR3X6G1600C8D Rev 3.2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung SSD830 128GB / Seagate 640GB+1TB+2TB+4TB Samsung SH-S223Q 22X XTTH | OCZ Freeze | 9G1212H1011 Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell U2410f (rev. A02) Code 104 w/O-rings + Vortex doubleshot keycaps Antec HCPP-850 CaseLabs SM8 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G500 Sharkoon 1337 Asus Xonar DX + Swan D1080MkII08 + MXL Tempo Lifecam Cinema 
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post #20 of 27

Alright, k fine. I guess I'm done here. I'll stay subscribed just in case, but otherwise I'm done. I'm getting sick of this and now mdocod has posted one of his usual draining super-long posts that I will never read because it will just waste more of my time.

 

I guess I just don't know what I'm talking about anymore.

It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
Basic, but premium round X-Fi Titanium HD Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 (with 16 AWG Monster Cable... 
  hide details  
Reply
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