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Custom Water Cooling vs AIO Water Cooling - temps

Poll Results: What will you put in your build if going water?

 
  • 14% (7)
    AIO Water Cooling
  • 85% (42)
    Custom Water Cooling
49 Total Votes  
post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

This is my first thread at OCN. thumb.gif

I wanted to share my experience on the subject and ask a few questions.

I recently built a Custom Water Loop in my Corsair 350D which BTW has limited space for WC gear. But I like small builds! wink.gif

Before that I used AIO water coolers (a H100i for CPU and a H105 for the GPU with the NZXT G10 bracket) but wanted to venture in Custom WC because I like to choose the WC parts myself: radiators, pump, tubing, blocks, fans...

Here is a picture when I was testing for possible leaks: (none detected so far biggrin.gif)



From the picture you can see my WC setup which is listed like this: (pump -> Gpu block -> top rad. -> Cpu block -> front rad. -> res. ->)

Radiator top: Hardware labs, Black Ice Nemesis 240 GTS XFLOW, 30mm thick (Fans on it: 2 x Prolimatech Ultra Vortex 120)
Radiator front: Hardware labs, Black Ice Nemesis 240 GTX, 54mm thick (Fans on it: 2 x Noctua NF-F12)
Pump and reservoir: EK DCP 4.0 PWM combo with X RES reservoir
Blocks: EK-FB ASUS M6I - Nickel, EK-FC780 GTX Classy - Nickel
Compression Fittings: Monsoon
Tubing: PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT - clear
Coolant: EK Water Blocks EK-Ekoolant Red - 1000ml

Thats about the setup. Now lets talk about temps.

With AIO water coolers I got the following results:

H100i on a i5 4670K oc-ed to 4.4GHz with 1.3V - idle was at 30C, max temp I saw was 76C, in gaming it averages at 70C
H105 on a GTX 780 Classy oc-ed to 1385MHz with 1.31V - idle was at 24C, max temp I saw was 60C, in gaming it averages at 55C

With Custom WC I expected much better results but I was surprised with the difference rolleyes.gif

i5 4670k oc-ed to 4.4GHz with 1.3V - idle at 28C, max temp I saw was 65C, in gaming it averages at 60C
GTX 780 Classy oc-ed to 1385MHz with 1.31V - idle at 28C, max temp I saw was 56C, in gaming it averages at 52C

I used for both Custom blocks and before that AIO blocks the Prolimatech PK3 paste.

When running AIDA64 stress test and Prime95 I got some wierd temps:
AIDA64 - CPU runs around 50C under 100% load on all cores - Max temp per core are: 76 - 74 -72 -68
Prime95 - CPU runs around 80C under 100% load on all cores - Max temp per core are: 90 - 88 - 86 - 82

I saw those high temps only when stress testing, but Prime95 troubles me with that result. I read around that AIDA64 is more optimized for Haswell while Prime95 is not. Can that be the issue? (Will post more pics when I get home, now I am at work tongue.gif)

My conclusion is that 2 AIO water coolers put separetly on CPU and GPU works very good, close to Custom WC temps.
The advantage is that there are 2 separate loops which are independent.
Custom water cooling is much more complex as all is part of one loop so temps of CPU and GPU affects each other, sure components are of better quality (Aluminium Vs Copper) which is why temps are lower, radiators are bigger and blocks are better built too.
All in all AIO WC is much cheaper costing about 250€ (H100i, H105, NZXT G10 bracket), but a lot louder.
Custom WC is expensive at 550€ its just double in cost that AIO but a lot quieter and cooler in temps.

So if your on a budget, dont want to mess with Custom WC parts and dont mind louder fan noise go for AIOs as they are very good.
If you like me, want to have Custom WC parts and love to assemble them, have spare money to spend, want quieter fan noise and better overall temps go for CUSTOM WC.

I hope that my experience will help some of you guys out there wondering which way to go, AIO or Custom.
Please guys feel free to comment as I want to hear your opinion on this matter.
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post #2 of 52
I guess this might be helpful for some people wondering whether to go for AIO's or a custom loop, so thanks for that thumb.gif

About the temp differences though: Are you sure the temperature in the room was roughly the same when you did the tests? Also have you bled all the air out of the loop?

By the way you state that a custom loop is all part of one loop so the CPU/GPU temps affect each other - but you can also go for a dual/triple loop if you'd like! Sure it's more expensive but the possibility is there smile.gif

Some advantages for a custom loop would also be:

- Excellent fan control when coupled with an (inline) temp sensor and an Aquaero fan controller - Super silent operation when water temperature is low and when it goes up, the fans ramp up according to your own specified fan curve.

- Being able to measure flow-rate and temperatures of fluid.

- Infinite expandability (as long as your budget and or room allows it tongue.gif)

- Looks a lot better if done right.

I guess that is all that comes to mind right now biggrin.gif
post #3 of 52
I've recently gone from a Corsiar H90 140mm AIO to a custom water loop too. My experience was this:

With a H90 (worth noting it had 2x Noctua NF-14 FLX, so possibly better performance than stock) and reference GTX780 cooler my temps are 78°C CPU/83°C GPU:


Same test with the same clocks and similar ambient temp with my water loop, temps are 68°C CPU/36°C GPU:


That's 10°C CPU improvement over AIO and 47°C (!) improvement for the GPU plus a massive reduction in noise.

I then set about using that 10°C CPU improvement to increase my overclock, and now that GPU fan noise and temperature was no issue, I started to overlclock my 780. I didn't overclock it on air as the reference cooler at higher speeds was just too noisy for me.

I went from 4.5Ghz 4670K and stock (902MHz/6008MHz) 780 Fire Strike score of 8369:


To a 4.8Ghz 4670K and 1241Mhz/6956Mhz 780 score of 10080:


That's an 18.5% improvement in score thumb.gif

So I got a cooler/faster/quieter/fancier looking PC and the loop was fun to build. Of course it cost ~ £400 more than the AIO, and that's where people will weigh whether it's worth it for themselves.
Edited by DFroN - 7/17/14 at 9:48am
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post #4 of 52
I am for Custom loops or atleast purpose built and non closed AIO systems.

My first Watercooling system was a Thermal Take Aquarius III

It was horrible, loud, and took up more room than it should. But, in my young age and stupidity I thought it was BOSS


I mean...look at those tubes...McDonald's straws are wider than those things.
And those darn PCI slot fittings were such a PITA to get in and out of the case for cleaning. Oh to be young again.

Then eventually I fell back into the air crowd and I was happy with ungodly large metal objects hanging off my Mobo

Tuniq Tower



Megahalems


Then in 2011 it was back to water and with the XSPC RASA kit it was just a gateway to just adding more and more stuff to the loop. I love the expand-ability.

The one issue I have seen with AIOs and this was never with a corsair product, I saw this on no name brand AIO closed systems of similar design in the PC repair shop around 2008. The Impeller sits right on top of the waterblock, when that closed system loses coolant it just fries the impeller and the unit is no longer good. The pump is usually weak anyway since it is just packed into such a tiny space and doesn't really have to move that much water considering the AIO is only going to either a CPU or GPU block. When these units came in, I ended up just switching them back over to HSF. Of course the overzealous users were always like, but my WC loop is so bad***. I would pick out like the most god awful looking HSF and it shut them up pretty quick.



Granted, those users were not the kind of people that were aware of places like OCN. Their AIO cooler was probably worse(in terms of cooling) than the Thermal Take Spin Q shown above.
You have to really look at reviews if you're gonna go AIO. Why spend the money on water cooling to get the same or slightly better cooling than the best air solution? Then again it's everyone choice to spend their money how they choose.

Whether it be for sound or performance, or both...In my book(opinion) custom built systems will always outperform AIOs.
post #5 of 52
Thread Starter 
Its nice to hear your opinion guys, please keep posting it. thumb.gif

"About the temp differences though: Are you sure the temperature in the room was roughly the same when you did the tests? Also have you bled all the air out of the loop?"

- All air was bled out, I tilted the case and let it run with the res. open for a while. The temps were about the same when I tested. But I found out that during Prime95 the voltage goes up to 1.41V which is why the CPU has temp spikes all to 90C on some cores, averages at 80C when running 1.4V all the time while stress testing, AIDA64 puts 1.38V while stress testing which results in much cooler temps as I wrote above. All those temps are on 25C (AC set to 25C) ambient now in summer time here in Croatia (32C outside), will see how temps go down in winter where the ambient goes down to 20-21C. Expecting a 5-10C drops in temps. wink.gif I can even simulate now the 20C ambient with the AC, gotta need a jacket. (IDEA tongue.gif)


"That's 10°C CPU improvement over AIO and 47°C (!) improvement for the GPU plus a massive reduction in noise."

- Thats what I was talking about going from AIO on CPU to Custom WC gives you roughy 10C improvment on the CPU (and noise reduction, ofcourse), on the GPU going from air to water the difference is huge 47C and noise is reduced like x10 which is a known reason why people go water on the GPU (my 780 Classy was running the same 84C on stock air)

"To a 4.8Ghz 4670K "

- What voltage are you using for 4.8GHz? (1.4V? tongue.gif)

I am not familiar with no brand AIOs. I used only Corsair ones: H80, H100i, H105. All had copper plates and aluminium rads, which is a nice combo. Now with Custom WC I have Copper rads too which helps a bit with temps. The default Corsair SP fans are loud but you can always switch them with Noctua NF-F12 and get same performance with lower RPM and lower noise. I was very satisfied with the AIO setup I had and maybe I expected too much from Custom WC. But thats just me (expecting too much), in the end I am happy to have invested in Custom WC for future use.
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post #6 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireBird1989 View Post

What voltage are you using for 4.8GHz? (1.4V? tongue.gif)

That was at 1.35v tongue.gif I must admit I don't feel need to keep it at 4.8Ghz, for 24/7 I use 4.5GHz/1.178v. Looking at other people's OC's I think I have quite a good chip, one day I'll try 5GHz just to see if it can!
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post #7 of 52
This is great, for people that want to get into water cooling or don't know.

Personally I found that going from air to water on the CPU was only a marginal gain; But once you've done it you've setup your system for a watercooled GPU.

Which this thread is showing that the main point of watercooling with a custom loop is for the GPU.
 
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post #8 of 52
Thread Starter 
"Which this thread is showing that the main point of watercooling with a custom loop is for the GPU."

-The CPU air coolers has evolved and has become on par with the AIOs WC (expensive ones) like a Nocuta NH-D15 vs the Corsair H100i. Same performance air and water.
Custom WC will always benefit with its expandibility to put more radiators and more fans while other coolers are limited to factory standards.

GPU air coolers are still evolving towards better solutions but are rather limited to cooling the GPU, memory chips and VRMs which all produce heat and you need to balance that out.
The other thing that they can count on is that GPUs can run hotter than CPUs. The most irritating part is the fan noise when gaming it gets loud, really loud. mad.gif
AIO WC for the GPU are still being developed (corsair announced their solution) and adapted to fit a wide range of graphic cards. I was very satisfied with the NZXT G10 bracket as it alowed to put the most known AIOs on a wide variety of graphic cards. Its cost is 35€ which is not expensive, add 100€ for a good 240 AIO and you have a nice combo, with low temps and x10 better noise levels.
Custom WC blocks like I have now on my GTX 780 Classy are by far a better solution then AIOs as it covers all those critical points (GPU, memory chips and VRMs) and keeps them cool.
AIOs will cool your GPU but your memory chips and VRMs are left to the mercy of air cooling, be it a heatsink or a fan blowing over them, which in most cases is more than enough as they are rated to like 100C limit. So I think the best cooling option for GPUs ATM is Custom WC. thumb.gif
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post #9 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireBird1989 View Post

"Which this thread is showing that the main point of watercooling with a custom loop is for the GPU."

-The CPU air coolers has evolved and has become on par with the AIOs WC (expensive ones) like a Nocuta NH-D15 vs the Corsair H100i. Same performance air and water.
Custom WC will always benefit with its expandibility to put more radiators and more fans while other coolers are limited to factory standards.

GPU air coolers are still evolving towards better solutions but are rather limited to cooling the GPU, memory chips and VRMs which all produce heat and you need to balance that out.
The other thing that they can count on is that GPUs can run hotter than CPUs. The most irritating part is the fan noise when gaming it gets loud, really loud. mad.gif
AIO WC for the GPU are still being developed (corsair announced their solution) and adapted to fit a wide range of graphic cards. I was very satisfied with the NZXT G10 bracket as it alowed to put the most known AIOs on a wide variety of graphic cards. Its cost is 35€ which is not expensive, add 100€ for a good 240 AIO and you have a nice combo, with low temps and x10 better noise levels.
Custom WC blocks like I have now on my GTX 780 Classy are by far a better solution then AIOs as it covers all those critical points (GPU, memory chips and VRMs) and keeps them cool.
AIOs will cool your GPU but your memory chips and VRMs are left to the mercy of air cooling, be it a heatsink or a fan blowing over them, which in most cases is more than enough as they are rated to like 100C limit. So I think the best cooling option for GPUs ATM is Custom WC. thumb.gif
\

This is ecactly what I meant by that, a mid-range to high end air cooler is just as well off as a water-block pretty much. Again yes you can expand it, but the air coolers and CLC's do a pretty similar job. What can't be done at all right now is the effectiveness of a GPU waterblock on air or a CLC, as the GPU Block makes direct contact with the VRM's and Memory chips. Whereas the aftermarket air coolers generally don't. It's just that GPU's have more then one component like a CPU so it's harder to cool them all at once equally unlike a CPU.

That is what I meant by what I said, but by all means you can expand it but the CPU will be limited in cooling capacity by the block to a certain extend and you'll see deminishable returns.
Basically what I'm saying is that if you're gonna watercool with a custom loop, you'll see the best results from a watercooled GPU with a fullcover block, it's not really that effective to watercool just a CPU and never plan to watercool a GPU/Motherboard, you're better off to just get a CLC if that's the case.
 
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post #10 of 52
AIO coolers are good for a first time, i cut my teeth on an Antec 920. U learn about limitations and what works and dose not without fear of leaks. AIO will loose performance over time, I started to get lower performance after a year , i am sure you loose fluid in them after heavy overclocking. Even after air canning the rad it still did not have the same cooling as when i first got it.
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