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xl2411z - Blur Busters tool and severe ghosting

23K views 95 replies 15 participants last post by  Falkentyne 
#1 ·
Things I have done:

Checked the firmware version and its v002
Made a custom resolution with a Vertical Total of 1350
Made sure Blur Reduction is enabled on monitor.

Adjusted the blur busters settings: Persistence and Crosstalk.
Neither of them reduce ghosting.

If I raise Crosstalk, I get more brightness, ghosting unaffected.
Lowering it turns the image Dimmer, ghosting still unaffected.

If I raise Persistence, I get more brightness, ghosting remains unaffected.
Lowering it turns the image Dimmer, ghosting still unaffected.

The ghosting is quite insane compared to using LB on my 20TE, which had no ghosting visible to the human eye, or my 700d.

What to do?

And is the tool harmful in any way shape or form? (Speculate)
Is the custom res of 1350 vertical, harmful?
 
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#2 ·
There shouldn't be that much ghosting on that TN panel. Try disabling blur reduction, it may be introducing more RTC artifacts than it improves response time.

What's the purpose of your custom vertical resolution? It's a 1080p display and anything above it's native res would just need to be downsampled, and 1350 vertical probably isn't enough for it to be much of a replacement for supersampling AA.

The Blu Buster's tool should not be harmful. I would not expect a 1350p custom resolution to be harmful either, but it's possible the display's electronics don't like it.

Anyway, try turning off blur reduction and using the panels native resolution. If it still ghosts noticeably, it's probably defective.
 
#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

There shouldn't be that much ghosting on that TN panel. Try disabling blur reduction, it may be introducing more RTC artifacts than it improves response time.

What's the purpose of your custom vertical resolution? It's a 1080p display and anything above it's native res would just need to be downsampled, and 1350 vertical probably isn't enough for it to be much of a replacement for supersampling AA.

The Blu Buster's tool should not be harmful. I would not expect a 1350p custom resolution to be harmful either, but it's possible the display's electronics don't like it.

Anyway, try turning off blur reduction and using the panels native resolution. If it still ghosts noticeably, it's probably defective.
Its not actually adding vertical resolution though.

Blur Busters actually says: "Additional Improvement In Ghosting: "Vertical Total 1350″"

There is a further additional improvement possible, the Vertical Total 1350 Trick to reduce ghosting even further on BENQ Z-Series, by using larger blanking intervals via a Custom Resolution Utility. This creates more time for LCD GtG pixel transitions to complete between refreshes for strobing, resulting in cleaner motion with less ghosting (thinner ghosting band at top/bottom edges). Also, the image becomes brighter while using Vertical Total 1350. This trick is only possible at 120Hz or less.

http://www.blurbusters.com/benq/strobe-utility/

And since it makes the image brighter, its a much needed feature for me.

If I disable Blur Reduction, any clarity on moving subjects is lost and defeats the purchase of this monitor.
If I disable Blur Reduction my U2412M is pretty much on-par this gaming monitor in clarity, i.e. blurring. (Obviously, 60hz vs 120 has quite a difference in Fluiditiy, though)
 
#5 ·
Interesting. That explains why you are trying the resolution, but I still think you should test the default res if you have not already. It's not unusual for there to be variances or undocumented changes to displays that make tweaks for one sample less effective on another of the same model. Just trying to rule things out.

Does the display have a separate AMA setting? What do you have this set to?
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Interesting. That explains why you are trying the resolution, but I still think you should test the default res if you have not already. It's not unusual for there to be variances or undocumented changes to displays that make tweaks for one sample less effective on another of the same model. Just trying to rule things out.

Does the display have a separate AMA setting? What do you have this set to?
I have tried default res at the same refreshrate.

The ghosting remains the same, but there is alot more blurring.

AMA is set to High, which is the default value.
Premium which is the Highest value is not mentioned on any review site, and it will likely introduce more negative(?) ghosting

There is: Off, High and Premium.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzta09 View Post

I have tried default res at the same refreshrate.

The ghosting remains the same, but there is alot more blurring.

AMA is set to High, which is the default value.
Premium which is the Highest value is not mentioned on any review site, and it will likely introduce more negative(?) ghosting

There is: Off, High and Premium.
Hmm... My review of the Xl2420Z does mention the Premium setting and there are many images from PixPerAn showing various AMA settings and refresh rates. Your images do look very strange for 'AMA High' and it looks more like what I'd expect from 'AMA Premium' if you have the 'Blur Reduction' enabled as well. If this strobe backlight mode isn't active I'm not sure what you're expecting from the strobe utility as it won't change anything.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

Hmm... My review of the Xl2420Z does mention the Premium setting and there are many images from PixPerAn showing various AMA settings and refresh rates. Your images do look very strange for 'AMA High' and it looks more like what I'd expect from 'AMA Premium' if you have the 'Blur Reduction' enabled as well. If this strobe backlight mode isn't active I'm not sure what you're expecting from the strobe utility as it won't change anything.
Im using the Blur Busters application at 2.5ms & 0, and on the monitor AMA is High and blur reduction is enabled.

What I expected from this utility, was less ghosting.

LB got rid of pretty much all ghosting on my 20T 2.0
So it would seem, that Blur Reduction + Utility is worse than LB?

I can take some pics of AMA High vs Premium.
Blur Reduction disabled.

And default Vertical Total.
 
#9 ·
I'm not sure you should judge too much by images, even though there does appear to be an underlying issue here with inverse ghosting. The 'Blur Reduction' function is designed to reduce motion blur by reducing eye movement. Since the backlight is only illuminated very briefly any overshoot is only visible very briefly as well. Even if such an element is clear in a static image taken by a camera at high speed, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to look anything like that in person. The strobe length function of the utility will alter this so that the image can appear on the screen even more briefly, but it won't really change what your camera snapshot shows.

Where am I going with this? Images with 'AMA High' and 'AMA Premium' would be interesting to see, but make sure you consider what your own eyes see and not just what the images pick up as well.
smile.gif
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCM2 View Post

I'm not sure you should judge too much by images, even though there does appear to be an underlying issue here with inverse ghosting. The 'Blur Reduction' function is designed to reduce motion blur by reducing eye movement. Since the backlight is only illuminated very briefly any overshoot is only visible very briefly as well. Even if such an element is clear in a static image taken by a camera at high speed, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to look anything like that in person. The strobe length function of the utility will alter this so that the image can appear on the screen even more briefly, but it won't really change what your camera snapshot shows.

Where am I going with this? Images with 'AMA High' and 'AMA Premium' would be interesting to see, but make sure you consider what your own eyes see and not just what the images pick up as well.
smile.gif
I see ghosting with my eyes aswell as with the cam.

AMA High + Blur Reduction + Blur Buster tool (NOT using 1350 vert)
http://i.imgur.com/kpKAam5.jpg

AMA Premium + Blur Reduction + Blur Buster tool (NOT using 1350 vert)
http://i.imgur.com/sMJQ5IA.jpg

Shutter is set to 100.

Theres a very small difference between the AMA High and Premium.

If I disable AMA, I get no "dark" ghosting, but I get a more, transparent one. Its less visible tbh.

When enabling 1350 vert, the ghosting is the same, however image is much brighter.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamzta09 View Post

AMA is set to High, which is the default value.
Premium which is the Highest value is not mentioned on any review site, and it will likely introduce more negative(?) ghosting

There is: Off, High and Premium.
I have a BenQ with the same settings (totally different panel though), and High is the best option on mine. Premium does have noticeable negative ghosting.

Still, may be worth playing with the setting.
 
#12 ·
@PCM

If I want to use a custom res of 1600x900 in for instance CSGO.

What should I use as

Front Porch Pixels H/V
Sync width H/V
Total Pixels H/V

If I want the same brightness as in 1920x1080 with 1350 Vertical Total.

When I try to create a Custom res of 1600x900, it uses the 1920x1080 default template and thus all pixels are suited for the 1920x1080 res.
 
#14 ·
Stuttering is obvious with 'blur reduction' enabled because there is very little motion blur to mask it. It's the same with any strobe backlight technology. You really need to be hitting the refresh rate with your frame rate consistently for optimal performance. Sometimes if you're hitting a value that's a direct multiple of the refresh rate consistently (as may happen in your Skyrim example) things look better than in a variable frame rate environment as well. If your frame rate is bouncing around between 80-120 fps for example things will look choppy.

And I'm not sure about your custom resolution question, it might be worth asking ToastyX. Or somebody else here might know?
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

The monitor reports incorrectly when you're using the Blur and it's tools. I personally use 1502VT, try and see if that helps.
1502 doesnt do anything compared to 1350

Anyway, this monitor suffers from crazy ghosting, its really annoying for my eyes in games like Dark Souls 2, just panning the camera and my eyes have a hard time keeping focus.
 
#25 ·
It doesn't look how i'd expect "ghosting" to look, which would be like a constant blur, image dragging colors behind it moving. You can clearly see individual sharp frames, which doesn't happen as far as i know with ghosting issues (slow pixel transitions)

I'm not really sure here, though
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

It doesn't look how i'd expect "ghosting" to look, which would be like a constant blur, image dragging colors behind it moving. You can clearly see individual sharp frames, which doesn't happen as far as i know with ghosting issues (slow pixel transitions)

I'm not really sure here, though
There is a constant blur at anything that isnt solid 120 fps.
I never had this issue with the XL2420TE, I could play 60fps games without any annoying ghosting or blur.

This monitor, only works in 1 game, CSGO.

Strafing in Wow trying to read player names is impossible, even at 120fps.
Panning the camera in dark souls 2 (60fps) turns the entire image into blur.
 
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