thabks red and ya I love them excaliburs sadly there discountunied hope I spelled that right lol. I looked for them up and down all around and nope cant find any
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post #22 of 41
8/12/14 at 3:14pm
- Red1776
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Now that is terrible news. I had not realized that happened. 
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post #23 of 41
8/12/14 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberlocc 
there are going to curved off cpu temp. there going on 2 headers cpu and cpu opt. only the pwm signal travels off of them. im using self powered swiftech pwm splitters which now that I think about corsair fans wont work darinit. only the thick 240 in the floor the case fans and the top rads fans will be ran of pwm splitter only about 15 fans and the others will corsair qes ran at full speed always. why would I lose at low speeds? this is the first I have heard of this using a self powered spliterr or maube you didnt mean in that config. I have a friend that runs 20 fans of those splitters and 1 mobo header without issues. also im considering a coraair link for the extra feature of lighting. that aquero is way overpirced for what it does.
also there is always the option to build a pwm signla boosyer if indeed there isnt enough signal even doing this 2 5 dollar to make boosters and 2 10splitter will accomlish the same thing and actuallybetter with asus fan control than that 200 bay device ya that is no brainer. there Is sinply no jusfitaxtion to thay aqueros price 5 years ago there was but in todays market there isnt the same result can be achieved much much much cheaper.
also asus will also allow me to curve off of gpu temps and there is most likely options for delta if I look hard it may require the use of the oc panel but I plan to use that anyway outside of the case in extreme mode so running a temp gauge to the water through the panel and basing curves throught it may be possible if the board doesnt have temp sensors you can plug into the board which it may very well have I dont recall atm.
was the issue at low rpms off swiftech splitters or by being powered by the motherboard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva 
You really might want to get some more advice about trying to run that many fans from a mobo header, PWM fanout is pretty good, but not infinite . . . You'll typically loose being able to control them at lower speeds as you get too many.
You also may want to think about having that many fans all ramp up and down together based on CPU temp.
Much as you don't want to go there . . .
I'd think seriously about the Aquaero 6 with its 4 PWM channels and very powerful software program that lets you create virtual sensors so you could ramp fan speeds based on delta t or GPU temps if you're running multi-loop.
Food for thought,
Darlene

You really might want to get some more advice about trying to run that many fans from a mobo header, PWM fanout is pretty good, but not infinite . . . You'll typically loose being able to control them at lower speeds as you get too many.
You also may want to think about having that many fans all ramp up and down together based on CPU temp.
Much as you don't want to go there . . .
I'd think seriously about the Aquaero 6 with its 4 PWM channels and very powerful software program that lets you create virtual sensors so you could ramp fan speeds based on delta t or GPU temps if you're running multi-loop.
Food for thought,
Darlene
there are going to curved off cpu temp. there going on 2 headers cpu and cpu opt. only the pwm signal travels off of them. im using self powered swiftech pwm splitters which now that I think about corsair fans wont work darinit. only the thick 240 in the floor the case fans and the top rads fans will be ran of pwm splitter only about 15 fans and the others will corsair qes ran at full speed always. why would I lose at low speeds? this is the first I have heard of this using a self powered spliterr or maube you didnt mean in that config. I have a friend that runs 20 fans of those splitters and 1 mobo header without issues. also im considering a coraair link for the extra feature of lighting. that aquero is way overpirced for what it does.
also there is always the option to build a pwm signla boosyer if indeed there isnt enough signal even doing this 2 5 dollar to make boosters and 2 10splitter will accomlish the same thing and actuallybetter with asus fan control than that 200 bay device ya that is no brainer. there Is sinply no jusfitaxtion to thay aqueros price 5 years ago there was but in todays market there isnt the same result can be achieved much much much cheaper.
also asus will also allow me to curve off of gpu temps and there is most likely options for delta if I look hard it may require the use of the oc panel but I plan to use that anyway outside of the case in extreme mode so running a temp gauge to the water through the panel and basing curves throught it may be possible if the board doesnt have temp sensors you can plug into the board which it may very well have I dont recall atm.
was the issue at low rpms off swiftech splitters or by being powered by the motherboard?
Oooooops, my bad for sticking my
in where it wasn't wanted. 
Looks like you have it all figured out already . . .
Best of luck on your build.
Darlene
post #24 of 41
8/12/14 at 3:31pm
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Quote:
LOOOL

Hey , cyberlocc if i was you i would pay more attention to Darlene ,otherwise / probably you will not achieve your goals ....Best of lucks for your build

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Quote:
I didn't to be mean to be mean I hope you didn't think I did.Again my I am really sorry if you felt like i was being mean that wasn't my intent, I tend to lack tack and can come off mean to alot of people when that is not my intent and forums dont make it any easier my sincere apologizes.
Have you heard of the swift tech splitters having this issue. I haven't but I'm not discrediting what you said(corsair fans aside as they need a strong strong signal). do you think think this issue will be present with the splitters? or just when powered from the header.
Thanks for looking out that would be a problem if they were hard to control.
Also its not really that I do not want to run a bay devices as much as it physically isn't doable the bay drive will not accessible or visible so alot of features the aquero offers would be lost in this use as the panel might as well not even be there it wont be usable. I already have a flow monitor temp sensors are cheap and can run through speed fan for the delta and i use a rain meter that provides me this info on a second monitor at all times so 225 just to control pwm fans is really waste to me
Edited by cyberlocc - 8/12/14 at 4:08pm
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Quote:
I must have missed how I did not pay attention to her. I value her opinion and didn't mean to be rude apparently it was taken that way but it wasn't my intent im really confused why you even made this comment. FYI I know full well who she is she has helped me in the past and i wasn't trying to be mean or rude sorry it came out in a way that seemed like it.Also "probably you will not achieve your goals" is really uncalled for I am in no way a noob nor don't have a clue in what I'm doing the point of this thread was simply I don't know every fan on the market and people may know of ones I don't / used fans I have not that is what the intent of the thread is. You also don't even really know what my goal is that has shown apparent I asked for PWM for a reason because I already know I want PWM and how I'm going to control them.
She was not in the wrong as she was trying to help provide me with info that I may not have already planned for and that is appreciated very much however I have planned for it and you can kind of see that in my comment IE why she said what she did so your entire reply makes entirely no sense. Even more so when you add in the fact that many and I mean many people run 23+ fans without that overpriced controller.
Edited by cyberlocc - 8/12/14 at 4:10pm
post #27 of 41
8/12/14 at 4:18pm
So that it helps everyone;
The issue with daisy chaining a lot of PWM fans onto a single PWM header varies from one fan model to another, and one mobo to another.
What happens is that as more and more fans are added, the portion of the PWM pulse that's supposed to be low, theoretically 0V, it starts rising above the 0V level by anywhere from a few millivolts to several tenths of a volt.
The more it rises above 0v, once it gets to a few tenths, then the fan doesn't effectively see that as being off time, and so if you had a pulse that was fully on for 20% of the time, but didn't go close enough to 0V for the other 80% of the time, then the fan would see it as a pulse much wider than 20% and not be able to slow down to where it should be at 20%.
The Corsair PWM fans are the very worst in this respect . . . .
Once you have more than about 5 or 6, depending on the mobo, you progressively loose the ability to run them at lower speeds.
Once you add a few more, and they all run at max, regardless of where you set the PWM percentage.
Running 6 or eight PWM fans, any PWM fan but Corsair that is, for a rad setup, from a single header should never cause a problem . . . .
But once you get to where you're talking about 12, or way more, then the "Corsair Syndrome" has to be watched out for.
Keep in mind also that while the CPU and CPU Opt headers are both PWM, they are not necessarily separately driven, so that splitting the number of fans across both of them, is not electrically different than having them all on either one. . . . . Though that too may well vary by mobo
Those Swiftech splitters work fine. I've not seen any issues inherent in them.
Guys who complained about them failed to understand that it wasn't a splitter issue, but that they just make it easy to daisy chain enough fans so that the actual number of fan PWM connections becomes the issue when the controller can't handle them all.
Darlene
Edited by IT Diva - 8/12/14 at 4:27pm
The issue with daisy chaining a lot of PWM fans onto a single PWM header varies from one fan model to another, and one mobo to another.
What happens is that as more and more fans are added, the portion of the PWM pulse that's supposed to be low, theoretically 0V, it starts rising above the 0V level by anywhere from a few millivolts to several tenths of a volt.
The more it rises above 0v, once it gets to a few tenths, then the fan doesn't effectively see that as being off time, and so if you had a pulse that was fully on for 20% of the time, but didn't go close enough to 0V for the other 80% of the time, then the fan would see it as a pulse much wider than 20% and not be able to slow down to where it should be at 20%.
The Corsair PWM fans are the very worst in this respect . . . .
Once you have more than about 5 or 6, depending on the mobo, you progressively loose the ability to run them at lower speeds.
Once you add a few more, and they all run at max, regardless of where you set the PWM percentage.
Running 6 or eight PWM fans, any PWM fan but Corsair that is, for a rad setup, from a single header should never cause a problem . . . .
But once you get to where you're talking about 12, or way more, then the "Corsair Syndrome" has to be watched out for.
Keep in mind also that while the CPU and CPU Opt headers are both PWM, they are not necessarily separately driven, so that splitting the number of fans across both of them, is not electrically different than having them all on either one. . . . . Though that too may well vary by mobo
Those Swiftech splitters work fine. I've not seen any issues inherent in them.
Guys who complained about them failed to understand that it wasn't a splitter issue, but that they just make it easy to daisy chain enough fans so that the actual number of fan PWM connections becomes the issue when the controller can't handle them all.
Darlene
Edited by IT Diva - 8/12/14 at 4:27pm
post #28 of 41
8/12/14 at 4:30pm
- morencyam
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Personally, I would forget about PWM altogether. Never really understood the need. Especially with as much radiator space as you have. Bumping up from 1000RPM to 2000RPM probably won't make more than a few degree difference in core temps anyway. Just get a nice fan controller, put a one set of radiator fans per channel, and adjust them as needed. Or get something like the Lamptron CW611 or FCT that has an AUTO feature that ramps the fans up to 100% when a certain threshold temperature is met, then goes back down to a preset speed once the temperature drops below that threshold again. But that is more of a personally preference I guess.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva 
So that it helps everyone;
The issue with daisy chaining a lot of PWM fans onto a single PWM header varies from one fan model to another, and one mobo to another.
What happens is that as more and more fans are added, the portion of the PWM pulse that's supposed to be low, theoretically 0V, it starts rising above the 0V level by anywhere from a few millivolts to several tenths of a volt.
The more it rises above 0v, once it gets to a few tenths, then the fan doesn't effectively see that as being off time, and so if you had a pulse that was fully on for 20% of the time, but didn't go close enough to 0V for the other 80% of the time, then the fan would see it as a pulse much wider than 20% and not be able to slow down to where it should be at 20%.
The Corsair PWM fans are the very worst in this respect . . . .
Once you have more than about 5 or 6, depending on the mobo, you progressively loose the ability to run them at lower speeds.
Once you add a few more, and they all run at max, regardless of where you set the PWM percentage.
Running 6 or eight PWM fans, any PWM fan but Corsair that is, for a rad setup, from a single header should never cause a problem . . . .
But once you get to where you're talking about 12, or way more, then the "Corsair Syndrome" has to be watched out for.
Keep in mind also that while the CPU and CPU Opt headers are both PWM, they are not likely separately driven, so that splitting the number of fans across both of them, is not electrically different than having them all on either one. . . . . Though that too may well vary by mobo
Those Swiftech splitters work fine. I've not seen any issues inherent in them.
Guys who complained about them failed to understand that it wasn't a splitter issue, but that they just make it easy to daisy chain enough fans so that the actual number of fan PWM connections becomes the issue when the controller can't handle them all.
Darlene

So that it helps everyone;
The issue with daisy chaining a lot of PWM fans onto a single PWM header varies from one fan model to another, and one mobo to another.
What happens is that as more and more fans are added, the portion of the PWM pulse that's supposed to be low, theoretically 0V, it starts rising above the 0V level by anywhere from a few millivolts to several tenths of a volt.
The more it rises above 0v, once it gets to a few tenths, then the fan doesn't effectively see that as being off time, and so if you had a pulse that was fully on for 20% of the time, but didn't go close enough to 0V for the other 80% of the time, then the fan would see it as a pulse much wider than 20% and not be able to slow down to where it should be at 20%.
The Corsair PWM fans are the very worst in this respect . . . .
Once you have more than about 5 or 6, depending on the mobo, you progressively loose the ability to run them at lower speeds.
Once you add a few more, and they all run at max, regardless of where you set the PWM percentage.
Running 6 or eight PWM fans, any PWM fan but Corsair that is, for a rad setup, from a single header should never cause a problem . . . .
But once you get to where you're talking about 12, or way more, then the "Corsair Syndrome" has to be watched out for.
Keep in mind also that while the CPU and CPU Opt headers are both PWM, they are not likely separately driven, so that splitting the number of fans across both of them, is not electrically different than having them all on either one. . . . . Though that too may well vary by mobo
Those Swiftech splitters work fine. I've not seen any issues inherent in them.
Guys who complained about them failed to understand that it wasn't a splitter issue, but that they just make it easy to daisy chain enough fans so that the actual number of fan PWM connections becomes the issue when the controller can't handle them all.
Darlene
Cool good to know however 1 thing while i agree there on the same circuit it is very electrically different from what I understand the swiftech pulls zero power from the board it pulls pulse that is all nothing more. A daisy chain would be relaying on the board to not only give the signal but also will rely on it for all the fans power in case of the splitter this doesnt happen all fans are powered by the molex.
Also in the case with a daisy chain the header will see all the incoming rpms as one I have read lots of problems with fan speeds using a daisy chain as instead of the header seeing 1 set of incoming rpms it sees 2/3/4 ect depending on the number of fans I am pretty sure this is the issue of whcih you speak however the swiftech splitter fixes this issue by providing only 1 fans rpm signal out to the board and then incoming splits across. A daisy chain will not do this in that environment all fans will be giving info all at once back to the board and this will undoubtedly give the board faulty readings. I am going to to look more into this and thanks for letting me know about it I have seen quite a few people daisy chain these splitters together on the same header and not mention any issues with lower speeds and they had alot of fans. I am going to look more into this issue and will let everyone hear here know.
Thanks very much for your clear and concise explanation to the issue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morencyam 
Personally, I would forget about PWM altogether. Never really understood the need. Especially with as much radiator space as you have. Bumping up from 1000RPM to 2000RPM probably won't make more than a few degree difference in core temps anyway. Just get a nice fan controller, put a one set of radiator fans per channel, and adjust them as needed. Or get something like the Lamptron CW611 or FCT that has an AUTO feature that ramps the fans up to 100% when a certain threshold temperature is met, then goes back down to a preset speed once the temperature drops below that threshold again. But that is more of a personally preference I guess.

Personally, I would forget about PWM altogether. Never really understood the need. Especially with as much radiator space as you have. Bumping up from 1000RPM to 2000RPM probably won't make more than a few degree difference in core temps anyway. Just get a nice fan controller, put a one set of radiator fans per channel, and adjust them as needed. Or get something like the Lamptron CW611 or FCT that has an AUTO feature that ramps the fans up to 100% when a certain threshold temperature is met, then goes back down to a preset speed once the temperature drops below that threshold again. But that is more of a personally preference I guess.
If you read my previous post to Darlene I do not have the physical means to have a fan controller I will not be able to reach it I will not run one period those drive bays are need for other things anyway it is not an option period at all.
It will make a huge difference when i can go from the fans off or so low there silent to benching fast.
The loop isnt that much overkill for 1600ws of heat needing dissipated by a 4820k at 5ghz and 4 290xs also under water. That's alot of heat and my Arizona houses temp is not uncommon to be 100f
Edited by cyberlocc - 8/12/14 at 4:38pm
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