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Filter or Rad -- Pulling and Pushing Power for Slip Streams. Gentle Typhoons and San Aces - Page 2

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

I bought these fans back when I could. Since then, my wife has put me on a fan diet. If someone sends me free fans, I can review those. That's how I ended up doing fan reviewing.
frown.gif Say to Scythe ,that they send you a sample to review,they should know that you have reviewed some of their fans
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehume View Post

I bought these fans back when I could. Since then, my wife has put me on a fan diet. If someone sends me free fans, I can review those. That's how I ended up doing fan reviewing.
frown.gif Say to Scythe ,that they send you a sample to review,they should know that you have reviewed some of their fans


Scythe lost their US distributor. I haven't seen where they'd come back to the US market yet. But I'll keep what you say in mind.

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post #13 of 18
ehume, Thanks for posting your testing of these fans, nice work!

I've been a fan (sorry) of Scythe fans since my Mugen 2 cooler. I also use a couple GT AP-15s that magically appeared at my local Microcenter in late 2013 - early 2014. I was surprised to see them, I only wish I had bought them all.

I prefer PWM fans, and have a small collection of the Scythe Slip Stream PWM models, I was inspired to try them by the fan used on the Mugen 2. I have the:

SY1225SL12SH-P (0.53A)
SY1225SL12LM-P (0.26A)
SY1225SL12LM-P (0.18A) Mugen 2 fan.

Also, I could swear I have a 0.38A PWM version of this fan, I think the model supplied with the Mugen 4. Buried in one of my PCs currently.

I assume these PWM versions are simply variants of the three pin Slip Stream fans you tested, is that correct?

Great to see how right on spec they are, given your findings. Nice to see the GT AP's are over spec in your results.

One question, which I don't think I see any information on in your otherwise perfect description of your testing methodology. What is the power source you used for testing? I assume a direct connection to a PC PSU, rather than a mother board fan header.

While I also lament the loss of a Scythe distributor in the US currently, I noticed that Fry's has a few Scythe CPU coolers on their website, but only one model available at my local store. Apparently they can be ordered from Fry's.

http://www.frys.com/search?cat=-69582&pType=pDisplay&fq=m10099998%20SCYTHE%2C+INC.

Edit: Found the fan I mentioned above, it's a SY1225SL12M-P (0.38A).
Edited by parsec - 8/27/14 at 10:30am
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsec View Post

ehume, Thanks for posting your testing of these fans, nice work!

I've been a fan (sorry) of Scythe fans since my Mugen 2 cooler. I also use a couple GT AP-15s that magically appeared at my local Microcenter in late 2013 - early 2014. I was surprised to see them, I only wish I had bought them all.

I prefer PWM fans, and have a small collection of the Scythe Slip Stream PWM models, I was inspired to try them by the fan used on the Mugen 2. I have the:

SY1225SL12SH-P (0.53A)
SY1225SL12LM-P (0.26A)
SY1225SL12LM-P (0.18A) Mugen 2 fan.

Also, I could swear I have a 0.38A PWM version of this fan, I think the model supplied with the Mugen 4. Buried in one of my PCs currently.

I assume these PWM versions are simply variants of the three pin Slip Stream fans you tested, is that correct?

Great to see how right on spec they are, given your findings. Nice to see the GT AP's are over spec in your results.

One question, which I don't think I see any information on in your otherwise perfect description of your testing methodology. What is the power source you used for testing? I assume a direct connection to a PC PSU, rather than a mother board fan header.

While I also lament the loss of a Scythe distributor in the US currently, I noticed that Fry's has a few Scythe CPU coolers on their website, but only one model available at my local store. Apparently they can be ordered from Fry's.

http://www.frys.com/search?cat=-69582&pType=pDisplay&fq=m10099998%20SCYTHE%2C+INC.

Edit: Found the fan I mentioned above, it's a SY1225SL12M-P (0.38A).


Good job finding Slip Stream PWM's.

 

Yes, the fans get unadulterated PSU power. I have a Molex cable that is connected through Scythe adapters so that I can get power directly from the PSU while feeding the MB the RPM signals.

 

I have the left side cut out of the socket so I can put a PWM fan in as well as 3-pin fans. One side benefit of this system is that on PWM fans I have access to the PWM lead on the plug, since it it wider then the socket. If I stick a ground wire in it I can emulate a 0% PWM duty, and thus see what the speed of the fan is at that setting.

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post #15 of 18
Great work!

If we compare the San Ace to the Gentle Typhoons, then:

1850 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 1850 rpm 9S fans

There seems to be a lot more variance with the 9S performance in db. All Gentle Typhoons at 1850 rpm were within 1db, while the 9S was 25-28 db.

Performance wise, the Gentle Typhoons pulled 43-44 CFM through the 30 FPI rad at 26-27 db, against 40-42 db at 25-28 db for the 9S.

Hmm, I would consider this to be a very slight victory in favor of the Gentle Typhoon against the 9S.

2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 2200 rpm 9S fans
The Gentle Typhoons pulled 53-54 CFM at 29-30 db through the 30 FPI rad. Not a terrible tradeoff for 3db, 10 more CFM.

The 9S fans pulled 49-50 CFM through the 30 FPI rad at 30 db. Interesting that this version saw no variance.

Again a slight victory for the Gentle Typhoon, although this time somewhat larger. The gap between the 9S and Gentle Typhoon seems to be growing in favor of the Gentle Typhoon.



2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 2000 rpm 9G fans
The Gentle Typhoons pulled 53-54 CFM at 29-30 db through the 30 FPI rad.

The 9G fans pulled 55 CFM at 33 db. So 1 more CFM for 3 more dB. Not a good trade-off at all.

It's interesting that the Gentle Typhoon won this round too, against the 38mm thick 9G fan.


3000rpm Gentle Typhoon vs 2500 rpm 9s fans
The 3000 rpm Gentle Typhoon pulls 64 CFM through the rad at 36 dB.

The 9S pulls 57-58 CFM at about 34-35 dB.

Hmm ... extrapolating what the 9S would do at 36 dB, I'd be inclined to declare a victory for the Gentle Typhoon.



Other thoughts
Ed, how would you rate the sound quality of the San Ace against that of the Gentle Typhoon? Subjectively, the GTs seem to have a low pitched, almost turbine like sound. The San Ace fans too tend to be somewhat low pitched.


Conclusion
Sound quality not withstanding, this suggests to me that the Gentle Typhoon is a somewhat better fan in that it can move more air at any given dB compared to both the 9G and 9S San Ace fans.

It'd be interesting to see how a Delta 38mm AFB competes with the AP15. Intuitively though, I expect it to compete with the AP15.



Here's old Martin's tests:


AP 15 dominates the lower speed. Delta AFB the higher speed. Panaflo does well at a certain speed point but is trumped by the Deltas later on.

San Ace never took the top, although this was with the H1011, not the 9G or 9S series.

Your findings corroborate Martin's findings.
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post #16 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

Great work!

If we compare the San Ace to the Gentle Typhoons, then:

1850 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 1850 rpm 9S fans

There seems to be a lot more variance with the 9S performance in db. All Gentle Typhoons at 1850 rpm were within 1db, while the 9S was 25-28 db.

Performance wise, the Gentle Typhoons pulled 43-44 CFM through the 30 FPI rad at 26-27 db, against 40-42 db at 25-28 db for the 9S.

Hmm, I would consider this to be a very slight victory in favor of the Gentle Typhoon against the 9S.

2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 2200 rpm 9S fans
The Gentle Typhoons pulled 53-54 CFM at 29-30 db through the 30 FPI rad. Not a terrible tradeoff for 3db, 10 more CFM.

The 9S fans pulled 49-50 CFM through the 30 FPI rad at 30 db. Interesting that this version saw no variance.

Again a slight victory for the Gentle Typhoon, although this time somewhat larger. The gap between the 9S and Gentle Typhoon seems to be growing in favor of the Gentle Typhoon.



2150 rpm Gentle Typhoon should be matched up with the 2000 rpm 9G fans
The Gentle Typhoons pulled 53-54 CFM at 29-30 db through the 30 FPI rad.

The 9G fans pulled 55 CFM at 33 db. So 1 more CFM for 3 more dB. Not a good trade-off at all.

It's interesting that the Gentle Typhoon won this round too, against the 38mm thick 9G fan.


3000rpm Gentle Typhoon vs 2500 rpm 9s fans
The 3000 rpm Gentle Typhoon pulls 64 CFM through the rad at 36 dB.

The 9S pulls 57-58 CFM at about 34-35 dB.

Hmm ... extrapolating what the 9S would do at 36 dB, I'd be inclined to declare a victory for the Gentle Typhoon.



Other thoughts
Ed, how would you rate the sound quality of the San Ace against that of the Gentle Typhoon? Subjectively, the GTs seem to have a low pitched, almost turbine like sound. The San Ace fans too tend to be somewhat low pitched.


Conclusion
Sound quality not withstanding, this suggests to me that the Gentle Typhoon is a somewhat better fan in that it can move more air at any given dB compared to both the 9G and 9S San Ace fans.

It'd be interesting to see how a Delta 38mm AFB competes with the AP15. Intuitively though, I expect it to compete with the AP15.



Here's old Martin's tests:


AP 15 dominates the lower speed. Delta AFB the higher speed. Panaflo does well at a certain speed point but is trumped by the Deltas later on.

San Ace never took the top, although this was with the H1011, not the 9G or 9S series.

Your findings corroborate Martin's findings.

Depending on whether Martin used the 9G1212H1011 or thew 109R1212H1011 -- they look like the same fan, though their specs differ somewhat and they push somewhat different amounts of air through the rad -- The R pushes a bit more than the G, when both are at the H speed class (I have two examples of each).

 

Overall, the GT's sound better, but the S-types are my 120mm go-to fans for heatsinks. I use them for heatsinks in my daughter's rig, for example. The main reason they are relevant is that you can still buy them new, while the GT's are a dwindling resource at the back of retailers' inventory.

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post #17 of 18
Martin tested the 109R1212H1011.

It'd be interesting to get a set of the higher end fans and see which one wins out.

AFB 38mm is definitely the defending champion right now along with the Gentle Typhoon series. The AFB 25mm is a weaker fan overall from Martin's tests.
  • From Nidec, we have the VA450DC and perhaps the G1238B. These are their 38mm fans.
  • Delta has the AFB 38mm series and as its flagship, perhaps the THA series as well.
  • San Ace's fans seem to be not as good, but they do sound pretty decent. There's also the long life variants. I think at the top, the THA outperforms the 9HV1248P1G001 fan.
  • I do not have much experience with EBM Papst fans.
  • Panaflo seems to be outperformed, so I'd expect NMB would be as well.
  • Not sure about the other fan makers either, like Sunon, Mechatronics, et al.

Personally I have been getting Delta AFB fans since they are relatively cheap.

Most industrial fans are expensive. This is the VA450DC:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-Nidec-VA450DC-V34809-90-CQ1-Super-strong-12V-3-3A-12CM-120mm-axial-server/1873187864.html

You could think of the VA450DC as the 38mm brother of the AP15, but unfortunately, Nidec does not seem to make a lower speed version. I'm looking to see if I can't get a 48V version and run it at 12V.

Nidec doesn't seem to like making PWM fans for some reason. Not sure why, but this one can do PWM.

I think rpm for rpm, the G1238B is the most powerful fan on the market. The THA is faster in absolute performance, but you can get 100 watt version of the G1238B delivered. I've ordered a G1238B (cost me $52 CAD to have it delivered) to run some tests. Hopefully it will be here in a month or so.

I'm still looking for a way to get large numbers of 2150 rpm GTs to ship overseas.
Edited by CrazyElf - 8/28/14 at 10:38am
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post #18 of 18
Hey @ehume , can you please do a review on EK Vardar and the new Alphacool Susurro fans? They seems to be promising, while the Vardars claimed to be "Gentle Typhoon killers".
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