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[Official] ASUS ROG Swift PG278Q Owner's club - Page 386

post #3851 of 6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by moogleslam View Post

Hey guys - what's the solution for G-Sync not enabling? I've read this before somewhere, but can't recall. I've checked all the normal stuff. It's enabled in the Control Panel, Vertical Sync is set to G-Sync, V-Sync isn't enabled in game, made sure I'm running full screen, tried a few different games etc. Running 347.09, which I have been for a few weeks. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Got it working with a driver re-install.
post #3852 of 6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

They are calibrating it to that gamma so don't keep exchanging them expecting to get a different gamma. It isn't that the gamma is simply low but that they are calibrating to a BT.1886 gamma curve instead of a pure power gamma. BT.1886 is the new standard for HD TVs that accounts for the black level in the gamma curve so as to maintain contrast while not crushing shadow details and it is needed on LCDs to avoid black crush. Most LCD monitors have black crush and many people prefer some level of black crush because they do not like gray shadows. Sadly the black levels are too high on most IPS or TN panels to have nice black shadows without losing shadow details.

I can completely understand that you prefer a higher gamma, I would have preferred they calibrated to a 2.4 at 50% BT.1886 gamma curve (as the BT.1886 spec uses) instead of the 2.2 at 50% they used. However, they are not defective or wrong, simply calibrated to a gamma you do not like.

Sorry but the Swift is not for you if you cannot live with either the native gamma or the banding from a calibration. A new unit is not going to have a significantly different gamma.

Good information, thank you for posting. I was concerned about the gamma being off as well, but have been enjoying the colors all around.
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post #3853 of 6154
There is more to it than that I think... According to Lagom my Swift doesn't have black crush out of the box (nor after calibrating it with my colorimeter), it does have white crush though (partly solved by using pcmonitors.info settings) and my colorimeter (Colorhug) reports 1.9 gamma versus the 2.2 that all professional reviewers got.

So there's at least a few units with proper gamma, however I have no idea if anyone other than the professional reviewers got one of those tbh. Most people don't have a colorimeter and are generally clueless about such things. So it's possible that they are actually only shipping units with a gamma around 2 nowadays (or have always been, haha). The gamma of 2 is pretty nice for competitive gaming as it makes details in the darker shades clearly visible so it wouldn't really surprise me. But I don't lose those details after calibrating it, it's just much less visible especially in a lit room.

Either way I'm convinced it's not worth returning mine for the sake of the gamma since other than that my unit is basically perfect. Unless Asus makes some big announcement saying they are sorry and releasing a Swift 2.0 or something... but I don't see that happening, I'm afraid they are already moving on to new stuff (4k Swift I heard? and those 144hz IPS might make the Swift completely obsolete if they get it right too...)
post #3854 of 6154
Kinda ot :

What color calibrate are you using guys? Spyder? Willing to buy. Thanks!
post #3855 of 6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumPion View Post

Yeah my 2nd Swift is even lower, I have to set to 0.5. Unfortunately using NVCP gamma correction causes bad color banding (worse than other monitor's I've adjusted in this way). I have my 3rd swift on the way. If it also has crap gamma I'm just going to give up and wait for the Acer. No way should I have to settle for garbage gamma and color or live with color banding on an $800 monitor.

They are calibrating it to that gamma so don't keep exchanging them expecting to get a different gamma. It isn't that the gamma is simply low but that they are calibrating to a BT.1886 gamma curve instead of a pure power gamma. BT.1886 is the new standard for HD TVs that accounts for the black level in the gamma curve so as to maintain contrast while not crushing shadow details and it is needed on LCDs to avoid black crush. Most LCD monitors have black crush and many people prefer some level of black crush because they do not like gray shadows. Sadly the black levels are too high on most IPS or TN panels to have nice black shadows without losing shadow details.

I can completely understand that you prefer a higher gamma, I would have preferred they calibrated to a 2.4 at 50% BT.1886 gamma curve (as the BT.1886 spec uses) instead of the 2.2 at 50% they used. However, they are not defective or wrong, simply calibrated to a gamma you do not like.

Sorry but the Swift is not for you if you cannot live with either the native gamma or the banding from a calibration. A new unit is not going to have a significantly different gamma.

Hmm that is interesting, although I'm not totally convinced. Early professional reviews of the monitor praised it for having an accurate 2.2 sRBG gamma calibration, and many owners say the gamma calibration is just fine. Did they suddenly change the design at some point?

I've never heard of the BT.1886 standard until now. Regardless, that default, uncalibrated, low gamma of these Swifts looks like utter garbage. You don't have to worry about crushing blacks because with a gamma that low, there aren't any blacks or shadows anyway. Everything is super bright, washed out, and unnatural looking. I have a very hard time believing that this is intended.

question - is there something you have to do on the software/driver/OS side to accommodate a BT.1886 gamma curve? Maybe this is why I was having very bad black crush/loss of dark detail with my Swift when I adjusted the gamma back to 2.2.
Edited by QuantumPion - 1/10/15 at 8:48pm
post #3856 of 6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumPion View Post

Hmm that is interesting, although I'm not totally convinced. Early professional reviews of the monitor praised it for having an accurate 2.2 sRBG gamma calibration, and many owners say the gamma calibration is just fine. Did they suddenly change the design at some point?

I've never heard of the BT.1886 standard until now. Regardless, that default, uncalibrated, low gamma of these Swifts looks like utter garbage. You don't have to worry about crushing blacks because with a gamma that low, there aren't any blacks or shadows anyway. Everything is super bright, washed out, and unnatural looking. I have a very hard time believing that this is intended.

Yeah if it's intended then Asus is nuts. But after adjusting it, I'm really happy with the display. Here's what I use:

Monitor:
Red: 97
Green: 95
Blue: 100
Brightness: 100

NVCP:
Brightness: 47%
Contrast: 50%
Gamma: 0.86
DV: 55%

With Lagom's gamma test it hits around 2.2, the white balance is nearly perfect and there's very minimal banding vs my LG IPS display.
    
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post #3857 of 6154
I don't know why you're saying different gamma calibrations on the SAME monitor is INTENDED and somehow not ILLEGAL.
Pull that crap in real life in any other industry and your product will be pulled or the company sued.


Imagine if I bought two identical boxes of raisin bran and one had sun-maid raisins and another had some batch from Ecuador? I mean, come on. Reviewers got 2.2 gamma, end users get anywhere between 1.4 (!) to 2.2? And you think this is proper?

No wonder you toxic users bash people for getting defective swifts and then tell them to "suck it up, it's ONLY $800...."
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post #3858 of 6154
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumPion View Post

Hmm that is interesting, although I'm not totally convinced. Early professional reviews of the monitor praised it for having an accurate 2.2 sRBG gamma calibration, and many owners say the gamma calibration is just fine. Did they suddenly change the design at some point?

I've never heard of the BT.1886 standard until now. Regardless, that default, uncalibrated, low gamma of these Swifts looks like utter garbage. You don't have to worry about crushing blacks because with a gamma that low, there aren't any blacks or shadows anyway. Everything is super bright, washed out, and unnatural looking. I have a very hard time believing that this is intended.

question - is there something you have to do on the software/driver/OS side to accommodate a BT.1886 gamma curve? Maybe this is why I was having very bad black crush/loss of dark detail with my Swift when I adjusted the gamma back to 2.2.

Here is a good explination of BT.1886 from SpectraCAL. Notice how shades near black are much brighter for BT.1886 in their example?

Also here is a measurement of the gamma on my Swift (contrast set to 49) which I think has a washed out look relative to a display calibrated with some black crush (using a 2.2 pure power gamma) or a display with a lower black level but I also know it is close to correct for a BT.1886 like 2.2 gamma curve on a display with this black level. I think Asus really should have used real BT.1886 (2.4) as that would look better to most and that is the spec but I bet they wanted the reports of "perfect 2.2" instead of reviewers needing to explain why it measured average 2.4. Also movies (bluray) reference a 2.4 (now at least) but games still target who knows what.
Cyan is the average gamma (what reviews report - a near perfect 2.22), Yellow is the measured gamma, and Gray is the reference.
LL

It is possible your displays have been bad in some way but I think it is much more likely you don't like the BT.1886 like 2.2 gamma as it does look washed out compared to a pure power gamma. You can "see in the dark" better in games where that helps which I believe is why Asus used it. The black crush is expected if you use a pure power as well. I noticed it calibrating my Swift to pure power, even calibrating to a real BT.1886 2.4 caused slight black crush.

Do you have the brightness set above ~35? If you need it that high it might be part of the issue, I believe ~25 is a sweet spot for brightness on the Swift as the calibration is better near there but the screen isn't very bright (~130 cd/m²).

Edit: You have to have black crush calibrating the Swift to pure power 2.2 using a profile. You can only send 255 shades of gray to the monitor from the video card. If sending the monitor RGB(1,1,1) causes it to display a gray that you want to be displayed when the GPU receives (10,10,10) every value below (10,10,10) will be black. You cannot tell the monitor to display a gray between what it displays at (0,0,0) and (1,1,1) or 1s and 2s, etc. The only way to make the grays at 10-50 darker is to "steal" steps below them. This is also why you usually get some banding with a profile, you can do spacial and/or temporal dithering to prevent banding but you cannot do anything about black crush. Asus could calibrate to something else in the factory where they have a lot more steps to use but we are limited by the 8-bit per color communication between the GPU and the monitor.
Edited by Asmodian - 1/11/15 at 12:33am
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post #3859 of 6154
Just to add, the SWIFT that I reviewed had a 'pure' 2.2 gamma - not just an average gamma of 2.2. A number of samples have a 'pure' 1.8-2.0, so it doesn't seem that ASUS have intentionally switched to using BT.1886 or anything like that. BT. 1886 actually gives a slightly punchier look compared to the usual 2.2 in my view, but not compared to 2.4.

Many users reporting a 'washed out' look are stuck with gamma <2.0, which fortunately means the curve can be displaced by gamma adjustments in NVCP or using an ICC profile such as that provided in our review. Of course such adjustments do have some side-effects, it would be nicer if all were calibrated in the same fashion - and perhaps they are, but the panels themselves provide a different base. Inter-unit gamma variation on 144Hz monitors in general is shocking and it seems the PG278Q is no exception.
Edited by PCM2 - 1/11/15 at 1:53am
post #3860 of 6154
Exactly what I was saying. And yet the elitist monitor ego purists start flaming because THEY got great swifts, then they try to justify their $800 purchase by saying that bad gamma is a FEATURE! "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

Depressing. Not buying one of these. Getting another Benq when the new benqs come out.
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