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post #9831 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Scone View Post

Better off using XTU as Turbo-V is configured to set the low and high ratios to the same value for extreme overclocking - which is what the utility is for. I think Raja just used that to answer whether ASUS were using the same VID access method as Intel, to put an end to the conspiracy theories lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdK6sR5Sfdc

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post #9832 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

Turbo V core
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7gpMyj43ZFjSDQ1S1d4OHByZXc

Thank you! +rep. I spent a good 20 minutes googling for a version compatible with Windows 10 with no luck.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. Changing the cache multiplier to either 40 or 42 in TurboV causes an immediate system hang. (EDIT: Just saw last two posts. Really? Changing cache multiplier doesn't hang anyone else's system? Huh. Wonder why mine does. Maybe another monitoring program running, will give it a try. You can't set it to apply settings on startup anyway, though, right?)

So, XTU appears to be the only option, and at least on my system, it's only good to get up to 4.0. And it also has the pretty much (for me) dealbreaking flaw that it has to be redone on every reboot (though I suppose that's not a big deal if, unlike me, you're the sort that leaves their system running 24/7 for weeks on end).

I'm thinking, though, that now we can provide hard evidence to Intel proving that XTU can only achieve real maximum 40 clocks with uncore max set to 42. That's a lot better than just posting "Adaptive cache doesn't work!" That's pretty specific proof that it's not working as intended, and that can hopefully get them to revisit the whole thing, which may lead them to fix it enough to let Asus be able to set it properly in the BIOS. Worth a shot, I think. I'll try posting about it over there sometime in the next few hours.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 1:00pm
    
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post #9833 of 10638
As an aside, I have to admit I'm still wondering why people are dismissing tistou's results.

Yes, I know, he's got a figure of 0.3v set in the offset field. Now, this may come as a surprise to some of you, but here's something we've learned through much trial and error: The settings in the BIOS *don't work as intended*. Really! I know, crazy right? If this is the first time you've managed to grasp this fact - welcome to the conversation!

Those of us trying to get this working have already acknowledged this, and are trying non-intuitive settings as a workaround to achieve the desired RESULT of a good cache overclock with lower idle voltage than offset mode can provide. That's the point of Adaptive Cache, right?

tistou and I both discovered workarounds that achieve the intended result of low idle voltage. Mine had the flaw that it involved a crazy high voltage setting in the BIOS. tistou's was better than mine - he didn't have to put in any crazy settings, and he *still* got results. In that video, he's showing 0.716v cache voltage at idle. That's lower than me using 0 offset!

He's also told us that what he's getting is a significant drop from the best idle voltage he can get with offset mode. I think he said he's getting a full 0.2v lower idle voltage. That's pretty significant. It'd be more than good enough for me.

IMO, unless his "base" idle voltage with offset 0 is a kinda crazy low 0.416v - and I think the lowest idle cache voltage I ever saw a screenshot of is 0.58v - then it's obvious that while his setting *says* 0.3v offset, it's not actually *applying* that much offset, because if it were, his idle voltage couldn't be anywhere near that low.

My applying a 0.27v offset in offset mode gets me lowest 0.990v at idle.

If you can get me 0.716 idle cache voltage without any crazy voltage settings, I'll thank you and walk out happy! I can't really see what benefit there could be to getting it to drop lower than that, anyway.

Seriously, if you're still hung up that the settings aren't doing what you'd intuitively think they *should* do, well, DUH. We've known that. If you can use unintuitive settings (preferably without the crazy high settings my method involved) that achieve the desired *result*, that's a win! And he did that. And you're all mocking him for it.

Pretty damn sad, IMHO.

I'd be working on variations of his method to solve the problem right now, if he hadn't already said it didn't work on the RVE.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 1:20pm
    
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post #9834 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

As an aside, I have to admit I'm still wondering why people are dismissing tistou's results.


Those of us trying to get this working have already acknowledged this, and are trying non-intuitive settings as a workaround to achieve the desired RESULT of a good cache overclock with lower idle clocks than offset mode can provide. That's the point of Adaptive Cache, right?

Really don't mean to cause offense, or single anyone out here, but it was only 2 or 3 days ago that you had no idea how the adaptive function even worked. You have quite literally gone from nothing to a wild theory, based on a lot of your own theories which have been disproved by what others have discovered is happening when the ratio in XTU is applied.

If the offset stack is having to be adjusted in order to use adaptive correctly, then quite simply adaptive isn't working as this why the function is there in the first place. The reason Intel invented adaptive was to leave the offset stack alone and focus on scaling VID for the Turbo ratios. If offset needs to be used to apply adaptive, due to adaptive not scaling correctly, what you have is nothing more than a workaround. And that workaround is more crude when one understands the nature of offset and the fact that CPUs have different VID stacks.

The technicality of adaptive working as intended is relevant for those of us that understand why intel intvented adaptive. For you it might not be, because you are a newcomer to all of this and are still trying to grasp it all.


And that is all compounded further when you can run a pure adaptive from the OS for the cache, and have always been able to for Vcore from UEFI.

Distinctions of fixed need to be accurate, otherwise we end up in a big mess smile.gif
post #9835 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

It is not me who is tested, it's with a Deluxe, where it works compared to R5E
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post #9836 of 10638
scone: Thank you for taking the tone down. It's appreciated. And it avoids unnecessary distractions. Conceded that I had a misconception of how the offset setting under adaptive worked. Never used it for my adaptive core settings, so I had no practical experience with it, and given what I've seen of how it works under adaptive cache, I hope I can be forgiven for reaching the wrong conclusions, given how completely inconsistently it's behaving. (well, at least in tistou's video... on mine, any value in the "offset" field under adaptive is working exactly like it does in offset mode).

Question - do C States affect cache voltage? I thought they did when I played with it for a couple of days, but I want to be sure.

If they do, then it's affecting tistou's results. He's definitely got C States turned on, given what his core voltage is doing.


EDIT: Never mind about the max load issue I posted for a moment there... I figured it out. It really is probably all offset, and the add'l turbo he's got isn't adding anything. I'm curious what it's doing to his idle though.


tistou: Would you mind rerunning your results on your Deluxe with all C-States disabled, so we can see your true idle voltage? And then please produce a video just like the last one you did. It might help a lot, as it would give us a clearer picture of what's really going on in what I described in my last paragraph.

Another very interesting test would be to change it to offset 0.25v and add'l turbo 1v, and video that as well.

And tistou, if you don't have C-States turned on on your RVE, it may well explain why you're seeing different results on your two machines.

Prediction: If you disable C-States on your deluxe, your idle voltage will be about 1.03v.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 2:47pm
    
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post #9837 of 10638
Answered my own question: With all C-States enabled but Package Limit set to Auto, it does not affect cache voltage. But if you set the Package Limit to C6 Non Retention State, it does. And in a very similar way to how it's behaving in tistou's video.

So that explains his awesome idle voltages, it seems. Okay. At least I figured that part out on my own, eh? tongue.gif

Incidentally, the only reason I haven't previously used C-States as a solution to the problem is because, sadly, it *does* cause me eventual instability if I leave it set to anything but Auto, which doesn't seem to do anything more than "Disabled" does. I know it's supposed to be really stable, and its use encouraged, but sadly, not for me.

I have changed other settings since the last time I tried it tho. May give it another shot just to see. If I can get totally stable with that Package Limit setting, then yeah, would have no need for Adaptive Cache anymore.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 3:05pm
    
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post #9838 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

I figured it out. It really is probably all offset, and the add'l turbo he's got isn't adding anything. I'm curious what it's doing to his idle though.

tistou: Would you mind rerunning your results on your Deluxe with all C-States disabled, so we can see your true idle voltage?

Hello

Congratulation for coming to terms with what has been stated since the beginning of this fiasco. And although this has already been stated previously it appears repeating is in order. Those results with the DELUXE were not done by @tistou77. The person that posted that video either has absolutely no clue as to how the platform nor architecture works or has attempted a go at subterfuge at its highest level.
post #9839 of 10638
Praz:

The idle voltage results were still impressive, regardless of what was getting his maximum voltage where it was. Until you realize C6 Non Retention C-States were in play. Which no one noticed except me. But don't worry, giving any credit for someone figuring something out that no one else has, even without the vaunted and infinite knowledge you possess, is something I've come to realize you are completely incapable of, so I don't expect it anymore.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 3:11pm
    
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post #9840 of 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

It's not me who did the tests, I have no Deluxe smile.gif

The person who made them, working in the "computer world" (microprocessors, microcode, etc ... if I remember)
No relationship with anyone, he test and gives its results and not "criticize" without bringing anything
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