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post #9861 of 10637
If that one's too recent for you, this one was from 2 days and 21 hours ago. Before any of this devolved. Pretty much right at the beginning, in fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

Given that information, I believe I could set up adaptive voltage in such a way that I'd get the same maximum voltage under load and a much lower idle voltage than I can get in offset mode (which is the whole point of adaptive). Again, though, this would require the "total adaptive cache voltage" in the BIOS to get crazy high, and I'm not really anxious to try that.
    
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post #9862 of 10637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

Um seriously?

I think I mentioned it like 12 times.

How about here?

The question is embedded in there yup... lost in the verbosity of the quixotic adventure about Intel, adaptive cache and what not.

how about simply asking the question directly" Is there a way to lower idle state voltage using Offset voltage.. which is the only currently available dynamic voltage for Cache?"

I not sure anyone involved in this "discussion" could understand you to mean anything but chasing adaptive cache in all those posts.

You should read up on what exactly C-states do.

QED. Lets move on....
Edited by Jpmboy - 7/31/16 at 5:31pm
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post #9863 of 10637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

The question is embedded in there yup... lost in the verbosity of the quixotic adventure about Intel, adaptive cache and what not.

Erm. Seriously. Every piece of bolded text in this making the point.

Quote:
Those of us trying to get this working have already acknowledged this, and are trying non-intuitive settings as a workaround to achieve the desired RESULT of a good cache overclock with lower idle voltage than offset mode can provide. That's the point of Adaptive Cache, right?

tistou and I both discovered workarounds that achieve the intended result of low idle voltage. Mine had the flaw that it involved a crazy high voltage setting in the BIOS. tistou's was better than mine - he didn't have to put in any crazy settings, and he *still* got results. In that video, he's showing 0.716v cache voltage at idle. That's lower than me using 0 offset!

He's also told us that what he's getting is a significant drop from the best idle voltage he can get with offset mode. I think he said he's getting a full 0.2v lower idle voltage. That's pretty significant. It'd be more than good enough for me.

Did I insert an "and" somewhere that threw you off?
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 5:35pm
    
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post #9864 of 10637
lol.

Someone has too much time on their hands to argue about an implementation that Intel has not yet managed to get it right.

Who needs their cache to idle at <0.7v anyways at 1200mhz. This isn't safevoltage.net or powersavingoverclock.net

Thanks for diluting this thread by roughly 5-10 pages, appreciate it.

That said, how's the latest bios doing. Been having some VCCSA / boot training memory issues due to temperature variation, dialing up VCCSA from 0.85V to 0.93V seems to fix it, along with tuning VTTDDR, but I have a feeling it's going to come back, so I might as well try the new bios.
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post #9865 of 10637
Or how about here? This was the first time I was anything less than polite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

I know that the actual longevity gains of running at 0.27v lower at idle isn't earth shattering. Yeah, I know that current at idle is low enough that it doesn't make a huge difference. That's not the issue. The issue is unwarranted arrogance, and condescension, and a refusal to even acknowledge the possibility that a 25 year programmer could figure out how a piece of software works simply by observing its behavior.

...

I'll go off and enjoy being the only person in the world idling at 0.735v cache with a 38x multiplier and stable under highly variable load, despite being assured by the experts that it's completely broken. It warms the cackles my cold misconception-filled ignorant know-nothing heart.

Pretty clear what I was happy about achieving in that, isn't it? If you are all running C States and therefore have low idle voltages with a good overclock, there wasn't much there for me to be happy about, was there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post

Who needs their cache to idle at <0.7v anyways at 1200mhz. This isn't safevoltage.net or powersavingoverclocknet

I wasn't idling at 0.7v previously. The very lowest I'd idle at was 0.990v, and usually a bit over 1v. As I quoted above, I know it doesn't make a big deal, but I like maximizing efficiency.

Seriously, the idea that no one could glean what I was trying to achieve out of the practically hundred times I was focused like a laser on the idle voltage is preposterous. You guys are grasping at straws to make this my fault, when, *clearly*, if anyone had actually read what I was asking *from the very beginning, 3 days ago*, they could've mentioned the C States answer. At least four times since tistou posted that video, I explicitly and repeatedly defended it on the basis of the low idle voltages it was showing.

No one could pick up that was my goal? Seriously?

I'm sorry. Utterly preposterous. And as predicted, no one gives a single kudo for actually discovering it on my own, without any help from anyone.

Incidentally, and out of curiosity, I checked my ROG forum conversation with Raja. I can't find anywhere there that I made a point of it, as I was focused on the high end of the voltage scale in my conversation with him. So I can't fault him for not picking up on it. But reviewing my posts in *this* forum? Jeebus, like 6 dozen times! Yes. Sorry. The idea that I didn't make the result I was looking for clear, not just once and not just recently but from the beginning and countless of times over, is utterly preposterous.
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 6:01pm
    
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post #9866 of 10637
Will adaptive cache voltage give me 500 points in 3dmark or Vantage, will it allow a higher cache overclock, will Donald Trump comment on Twitter about it? if not Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care
post #9867 of 10637
@Qwinn

What exactly is your goal with dedicating the past couple of days to get this working? Except of course with the claimed Voltage Going up and Down.
post #9868 of 10637
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post

That said, how's the latest bios doing. Been having some VCCSA / boot training memory issues due to temperature variation, dialing up VCCSA from 0.85V to 0.93V seems to fix it, along with tuning VTTDDR, but I have a feeling it's going to come back, so I might as well try the new bios.

Hello

Unless memory is really pushed VTTDR seldom needs to be set to anything other than auto. Could one or more settings be tight enough that there is little to no margin for normal temperature variations?
post #9869 of 10637
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

@Qwinn

What exactly is your goal with dedicating the past couple of days to get this working? Except of course with the claimed Voltage Going up and Down.

I've had it go up and down forever, using offset mode. It just bugged me to see cache voltage considerably higher (1.0+ versus 0.73v) than my core voltage all the time (I'm always running Aida sensors). I want to save my chip's lifetime allotment of wear and tear for the high end, and I wanted to minimize it further on the low end. Then later it became about the condescension and disrespect I was being shown, and a bullheaded Cuban determination to solve a problem everyone insisted on telling me couldn't be achieved (but now, of course, it was an answer they had all along, and that's my fault.)


So. It's my fault that this has gone on for 3 days. No one else's for failing to provide what you're now all telling me is an obvious answer to the result I explicitly stated I was looking for ad freaking nauseaum, and now you all have the balls to tell me I didn't make clear. You guys are blameless in this. Your answers have been on point and on target. The fault is all mine.

Screw it. If your goal was to drive me out, you've succeeded. I'm really glad I made this point in my rant though, since it's now been confirmed beyond spades for me, and applies even more widely than I thought then:
Quote:
Cause the last relevant thing I learned from being a programmer for 25 years is - 98% of IT geeks are completely incapable of admitting when they're wrong about *anything* in relation to IT matters. In most cases, IT geeks got/get picked on in their daily life on all matters outside of IT, and their egos become entirely dependent upon being Godlike in their technical field. Condescendingly arguing from authority and lording ultra specialist knowledge over others every chance they get is as necessary as breathing. Industry hazard. I'm way beyond the bad old days of being picked on in all other matters of life, so I can and do admit when I may be wrong pretty much whenever it's called for, once a plausible counterargument that fits all the available evidence (both technical and in terms of human motives).is presented. That certainly hasn't been done here to my satisfaction yet (and in this case it'd be pretty hard to get there now, since I'm not the one insisting a negative has been proved and no further evidence of absence is required.). But I've almost never had the luxury of being afforded the same sense of fair play from the rest of the egos in the industry.

So glad I wrote that ahead of time. I even got to apologize for being wrong a couple of times to prove what I said about that. If I got nothing else right in my rant, the above was pretty obviously blazingly on target.

Sorry for distracting you all from the doubtlessly fascinating and fruitful conversation you would've all had in its place, with lots of big technical words to impress the plebes. At least I get to walk out with lower idle voltage. Thanks to absolutely no one but myself (and tistou's video guy, laughingly enough, the *only* post in this entire discussion that helped me get my answer.)

Adios!
Edited by Qwinn - 7/31/16 at 6:20pm
    
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post #9870 of 10637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn View Post

I've had it go up and down forever, using offset mode. It just bugged me to see cache voltage considerably higher (1.0+ versus 0.73v) than my core voltage all the time (I'm always running Aida sensors). I want to save my chip's lifetime allotment of wear and tear for the high end, and I wanted to minimize it further on the low end. Then later it became about the condescension and disrespect I was being shown, and a bullheaded Cuban determination to solve a problem everyone insisted on telling me couldn't be achieved (but now, of course, it was an answer they had all along, and that's my fault.)


So. It's my fault that this has gone on for 3 days. No one else's for failing to provide what you're now all telling me is an obvious answer to the result I explicitly stated I was looking for ad freaking nauseaum, and now you all have the balls to tell me I didn't make clear. You guys are blameless in this. Your answers have been on point and on target. The fault is all mine.

Screw it. If your goal was to drive me out, you've succeeded. I'm really glad I made this point in my rant though, since it's now been confirmed beyond spades for me, and applies even more widely than I thought then:
So glad I wrote that ahead of time. I even got to apologize for being wrong a couple of times to prove what I said about that. If I got nothing else right in my rant, the above was pretty obviously blazingly on target.

Sorry for distracting you all from the doubtlessly fascinating and fruitful conversation you would've all had in its place, with lots of big technical words to impress the plebes. At least I get to walk out with lower idle voltage. Thanks to absolutely no one but myself (and tistou's video guy, laughingly enough, the *only* post in this entire discussion that helped me get my answer.)

Adios!

You are doing the disrespect with everyone asking you or responding to this thread. Get a cool down juice man.

The question is fair and simple. "What is tyour goal?" And it doesn't ask for anything other than that.

Just stop taking things too personal man.

Again, my question is fairly simple: What is the goal?

You can just simply say,
Quote:
I want to save my chip's lifetime allotment of wear and tear for the high end, and I wanted to minimize it further on the low end

And be done with it.

Coz I am just gonna respond with:





Even with Fixed Voltages, My CPU runs at 50W Idle at least as AIDA reports. How low can adaptive get?
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