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post #20001 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxusty View Post

That'd be the exact article. Thanks for elaborating zoson. It'd been so long the deets were a bit hazy. It's a good read nonetheless.

You been busy man? What have you been up to?
Yep, work's been killer. And recently the new iOS jailbreak has been consuming my time. I've still been lurking, and since I had insight into this particular topic, figured I'd post. wink.gif
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post #20002 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoo911 View Post

I hope so... I still think that 1.1906v on the cache is a bit high...

Btw. I have LLC on 9... Any impact on vcore?

LLC affects VCCIN directly on X99, not vcore. It can affect vcore indirectly (like too low VCCIN will starve all on-die rails). Sooo... Use a LLC setting that at least does not cause the VCCIN to raise when under load. Flat or a healthy amount of vdroop is the best way to go. If you are on the R5E, LLC 5 or 6 should be fine.
Load line Compensation (LLC) acts to reduce vdroop (by adding voltage) in an attempt to mitigate the overshoot ( V_os in the spec document) and undershoot that occurs when load changes (eg, when current at constant voltage changes.).
Edited by Jpmboy - 7/30/16 at 4:55am
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post #20003 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

LLC affects VCCIN directly on X99, not vcore. It can affect vcore indirectly (like too low VCCIN will stave all on-die rails). Sooo... Use a LLC setting that at least does not cause the VCCIN to raise when under load. Flat or a healthy amount of vdroop is the best way to go. If you are on the R5E, LLC 5 or 6 should be fine.
Load line Compensation (LLC) acts to reduce vdroop (by adding voltage) in an attempt to mitigate the overshoot ( V_os in the spec document) and undershoot that occurs when load changes (eg, when current at constant voltage changes.).
It still really depends on the CPU. My bad sample 5930k *requires* LLC 8 for any kind of stability when overclocked.
My 5960x does fine at LLC 6 for up to 4.5GHz but requires LLC 8 for >4.5GHz. I've always looked for 'flat' vcore in previous gens, and now yes flat VCCIN. As the anandtech article states, too high LLC causes problems when coming out of high load. But then again this issue is now well understood - so just reduce your LLC and bump vcore up if it happens.

Regardless, I don't think I've ever seen anyone document/provide proof that LLC alone has killed a CPU. It was always a combination of LLC and high voltage... Where the voltage could have killed the CPU on its own.
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post #20004 of 22233
@Jpmboy








so, the "MAXIMUM" column represents a 15 minutes run of RealBench...

the UEFI screenshots, are my current settings... any sugestions?
     
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post #20005 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoson View Post

Yep, work's been killer. And recently the new iOS jailbreak has been consuming my time. I've still been lurking, and since I had insight into this particular topic, figured I'd post. wink.gif

I hear you there... just starting a rig building business myself, long haul. Hehe.

That's what you're up to now, cool man. I'm surprised you guys can keep Jailbreaking. Impressed would be the better word for it.

Always appreciate any additional insight from a member like you bro. Cheers.
post #20006 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoson View Post

It still really depends on the CPU. My bad sample 5930k *requires* LLC 8 for any kind of stability when overclocked.
My 5960x does fine at LLC 6 for up to 4.5GHz but requires LLC 8 for >4.5GHz. I've always looked for 'flat' vcore in previous gens, and now yes flat VCCIN. As the anandtech article states, too high LLC causes problems when coming out of high load. But then again this issue is now well understood - so just reduce your LLC and bump vcore up if it happens.

Regardless, I don't think I've ever seen anyone document/provide proof that LLC alone has killed a CPU. It was always a combination of LLC and high voltage... Where the voltage could have killed the CPU on its own.
Voltage is meaningless regarding "kill", current kills (and only current can increase temperature). Voltage is only the potential that current (amps) is delivered at, when a "work request" is made. Sure, LLC does not kill a cpu - but transient spikes degrade them over time, This is why LLC continues to be programmed into bios - only on those rails subject to this effect (it's just the physics of current change at constant voltage). With the VR on x99, we have access only to vccin in this regard, all other voltages are stepped appropriately on the die.
Likewise, I've never had a cpu or overlcock for which I could only achieve the needed voltage by defeating vdroop. Unfortunately what we see as "flat" is not in fact, flat.
I just have a different approach: Idle voltage is meaningless, so when needed I just raise the voltage (VCCIN for this generation) and allow vdroop to mitigate the transient-induced voltage spike. Intel describes the effect in their spec sheet for this generation.

Certainly there is "art" or personal preference in this. I prefer to allow some vdroop. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoo911 View Post

@Jpmboy
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





so, the "MAXIMUM" column represents a 15 minutes run of RealBench...

the UEFI screenshots, are my current settings... any sugestions?

No suggestions if it is running the way you want it to. thumb.gif
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post #20007 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpmboy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoson View Post

It still really depends on the CPU. My bad sample 5930k *requires* LLC 8 for any kind of stability when overclocked.
My 5960x does fine at LLC 6 for up to 4.5GHz but requires LLC 8 for >4.5GHz. I've always looked for 'flat' vcore in previous gens, and now yes flat VCCIN. As the anandtech article states, too high LLC causes problems when coming out of high load. But then again this issue is now well understood - so just reduce your LLC and bump vcore up if it happens.

Regardless, I don't think I've ever seen anyone document/provide proof that LLC alone has killed a CPU. It was always a combination of LLC and high voltage... Where the voltage could have killed the CPU on its own.
Voltage is meaningless regarding "kill", current kills (and only current can increase temperature). Voltage is only the potential that current (amps) is delivered at, when a "work request" is made. Sure, LLC does not kill a cpu - but transient spikes degrade them over time, This is why LLC continues to be programmed into bios - only on those rails subject to this effect (it's just the physics of current change at constant voltage). With the VR on x99, we have access only to vccin in this regard, all other voltages are stepped appropriately on the die.
Likewise, I've never had a cpu or overlcock for which I could only achieve the needed voltage by defeating vdroop. Unfortunately what we see as "flat" is not in fact, flat.
I just have a different approach: Idle voltage is meaningless, so when needed I just raise the voltage (VCCIN for this generation) and allow vdroop to mitigate the transient-induced voltage spike. Intel describes the effect in their spec sheet for this generation.

Certainly there is "art" or personal preference in this. I prefer to allow some vdroop. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by shampoo911 View Post

@Jpmboy
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)





so, the "MAXIMUM" column represents a 15 minutes run of RealBench...

the UEFI screenshots, are my current settings... any sugestions?

No suggestions if it is running the way you want it to. thumb.gif

I'd just like to add a little to this. Ohm's law gives us P=IR2 (squared) which translates to P=VI. Increasing the voltage unnecessarily will increase the power dissipated even if the current draw remains steady.
 
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post #20008 of 22233
Its:

P= I^2R

Also,

V=IR
And
I=V/R

What dictates Current, is clock speeds and the type of load.

High Voltage and High Current Load = more heat.
post #20009 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Its:

P= I^2R

Also,

V=IR
And
I=V/R

What dictates Current, is clock speeds and the type of load.

High Voltage and High Current Load = more heat.

Yes I miss typed on my phone, it's I^2R. Point was voltage does have an impact. Higher voltage Wil reduce the current but will still produce the same power dissipation.
 
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post #20010 of 22233
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdallara View Post

Yes I miss typed on my phone, it's I^2R. Point was voltage does have an impact. Higher voltage Wil reduce the current but will still produce the same power dissipation.

Yep,

At same load, higher Voltage = higher Current and Power.
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