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[PCR] Nvidia slams AMD FreeSync: "We can't comment on pricing of products that don't exist" - Page 16  

post #151 of 230
To me it looks like you are on a smear campaign and have been for the whole year lol.
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post #152 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm106 View Post

To me it looks like you are on a smear campaign and have been for the whole year lol.

Debunking FUD with truth may look like a smear if the truth is bad, sure.

Doesn't make it not true.
post #153 of 230
It's hilarious that while I didn't put a name to it, you sure were quick to reply.
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post #154 of 230
Reading the past 10 pages at work, this thread has not failed to dissapoint.

I'm pretty sure and and nvidia are just doing this now to see which of their fan bases can out troll each other.
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post #155 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post

Or you could build a system that gets >90fps in every game on a 120Hz monitor, and cease to care about either technology.

Yeah, maybe if I had an extra million dollars laying around.

Good 32"+ 120Hz displays are hard to come by, and I might be able to get 90fps minimum in Planetside 2 and other poorly threaded, CPU hungry, titles if built my own air liquefaction plant to supply myself with the amount of LN2 I'd need to run a Haswell at ~6GHz 24/7.

It's not just for games either. I don't particularly like frame interpolation, and I have films and video in a wide variety of frame rates. It would be nice not to have to manually switch between a slew of custom refresh rates to get the best experience available.

Adaptive refresh rates should have been a thing long before now and the sooner it available in a hardware agnostic format, the better off everyone will be.
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post #156 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles View Post

Clearly nv see's FSync and ASync as a threat to their plans for a locked in proprietary future. Not only does AMD win at practically every price point for GPUs, but they will offer cards that provide variable refresh monitors that cost $80-$100 less and do the same thing, and are based on an open standard. There is no need for additional hardware inside the monitor other than what DP 1.2a provides, and ASync monitors are said to have lower latency transactions to and from the monitor, and it provides power saving benefits. I see a win-win-win-win for ASync, FSync, AMD, intel and other GPU manufacturers including ARM. It's clearly obvious that GSync is a dead end and judging from the clear lack of support for it, monitor manufacturers agree.

A fine example of the FUD I'm talking about. Not a single thing about FreeSync or G-Sync in this has any basis whatsoever in reality.

Especially that last line about monitor manufacturer support. Nvidia has a half dozen announced partners, several with actual products ready to go, others with products announced. AMD has zero. By what evidence do you claim that "monitor manufacturers agree" that G-Sync is a dead end compared to FreeSync? I mean, when a monitor manufacturer says something like this:

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?47219-Freesync-a-VESA-Standard/page2&s=d37c3dc26c35d77703118cb0555a330c
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asus 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antronman View Post
You know any monitor that can get the G-Sync upgrade already has VBlank enabled, which means it is freesync compatible, right?
No. It's not the same. It needs to be enabled in firmware, drivers, ICs.

This not 'ASUS official' - it's just a bit of background info on the machinations of product development to help our fans understand more. We love all our partners equally and wish only the best consumer choice

Having an 'industry standard' is only a first step. It doesn't suddenly make everyone jump onboard unfortunately. Now VESA is onboard though, things will get rolling, but it will not likely be fast.

Also, this doesn't take into account LCD/display companies are already deeply invested in 'more popular' technologies with more extensive market applications: 21:9, touchscreen, 4K, curved displays etc (remember they are not gamers).

Adaptive refresh needs a ASIC display IC physical redesign, not just a firmware update. This means silicon redesign, tape out, manuf, testing, firmware - the lot. AFAIK that's typically 12 months FROM NOW to get it on our hands (but I dont work for IC companies, so I dont know their roadmaps) - let alone 6 more months of product dev work to actually make a retail display. And that's all IF display IC manuf. decided to update for 1.2a, and not just wait for 1.3 (business speak: If company bean counters ask "why would you pay for two updates, when 1.2a rolls into 1.3 anyway?" how do you justify it?)

Not just display ICs, but LCD firmwares and GPU drivers too. AMD will obv support it, Intel has yet to publicly commit to any of it (go ask them), and Nvidia is (so far) backing its own solution as it is also yet to officially comment (again, go talk to them).

I expect Nvidia has been working on GSync for a year+ before they showed it last Nov - remember they use an FPGA not ASIC IC, so time to market is faster, but FPGAs are v.v.expensive. And 9 months after first show we're only now just getting ready to ship hardware. That's the kind of timescales we're looking at. So anyone thinking any display manuf. will magically pop out a display to compete with Gsync this year is mistaken: my educated guess is that GSync is your only choice until very likely well into 2015.

Short term:
Until further notice we are committed to GSync and PG278Q, as logically it's the only market ready technology. Given our close working relationship with Nvidia, we're hugely confident that PG278Q will still be the best possible GSync LCD on the market.

Medium term:
ASUS is standards agnostic: Freesync/GSync - we will work with all parties and investigate everything (that's no commitment either way). At the very least, this VESA 1.2a/1.3 will give great consumer choice!

Long term:
Will GSync and Freesync ultimately converge? Who knows. That bridge is ~years away.

I'd love to see a standard adaptive refresh monitor that's GPU agnostic (as we make all AMD/Intel/NV hardware), but that's long long term. If you bought PG278 this year, whatever happens in 'long term' will likely be your replacement!

How can you possibly think that means they think G-Sync is dead, and FreeSync is the clear winner?

This is only one example. Let's move on to the rest:

You claim that there won't be any more hardware than what DP 1.2a provides, but DP1.2a doesn't provide hardware in any way whatsoever. A-Sync is an optional part of the spec. Display OEMs still have to develop the necessary tech, which AMD itself said is the whole point of their end of things, to get hardware manufacturers to do that development. So that's completely false.

You claim that FreeSync has latency advantages, that is another lie. G-Sync's latency has been measured as on par with vysnc off, which is as low as it gets. That's false too.

All of your post is FUD and wishful thinking.

To anyone wondering why I post in these threads, this is why.
Edited by Mand12 - 9/2/14 at 9:34am
post #157 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post

Or you could build a system that gets >90fps in every game on a 120Hz monitor, and cease to care about either technology.

Took the words right outta my mouth. I'm still waiting for an wider range of 1440p 120-200Hz monitors. Instead everybody is still running around in circles about tech that will more likely than not still keep people at 1080p 60Hz.

Don't get me wrong. I'd love to see this tech integrated in but it seems a moot point when the majority of the panels in use are still lacking behind the display specs of CRT's from back in 2000-04.
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post #158 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by flippin_waffles View Post

Clearly nv see's FSync and ASync as a threat to their plans for a locked in proprietary future. Not only does AMD win at practically every price point for GPUs, but they will offer cards that provide variable refresh monitors that cost $80-$100 less and do the same thing, and are based on an open standard. There is no need for additional hardware inside the monitor other than what DP 1.2a provides, and ASync monitors are said to have lower latency transactions to and from the monitor, and it provides power saving benefits. I see a win-win-win-win for ASync, FSync, AMD, intel and other GPU manufacturers including ARM. It's clearly obvious that GSync is a dead end and judging from the clear lack of support for it, monitor manufacturers agree.

Wow. You're just trolling mand at this point right? None of that paragraph has any basis in fact. I also think "clearly" means something different than you think it means.
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post #159 of 230
Okay, time for some clarifications. Feel free to show evidence that contradicts me:

Variable refresh is the critical technology that allows v-sync with negligible latency. It is the capability for the display to present a frame that takes an unpredictable time to render, as soon as that frame is finished rendering.

G-sync is a hardware implementation of variable refresh, and an associated marketing campaign.

Adaptive-sync is a standard that requires a monitor manufacturer implement variable refresh. It is an optional extension to the DP 1.2a spec. There are currently no implementations that have been proven to comply with it.

eDP is a standard that contains language which allows for variable refresh to be implemented without violating the spec. It does not require variable refresh to be implemented, and the version of the spec mentioned by VESA's announcement of adaptive sync does not mention variable refresh being a possible consequence of the language that allows for it. There are implementations of eDP, but none have been proven to implement variable refresh.

freesync is a marketing campaign, but does not yet have a product to market.
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post #160 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbreslin View Post

Wow. You're just trolling mand at this point right?

I hope so. I really, really hope so. Post history seems to rather clearly indicate that he believes this, which is a bit frightening.
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