Wow, he really did say, "We have no plans to support that". Really, Nvidia? Going to ignore free and open standards now?
Scaler manufacturers not supporting this "optional feature" due to hardware limitations is one thing, GPU vendor refusing to provide software updates to take advantage of compatible hardware is another.
1) Even "free and open standards" cost time and money to implement. Why would they bother, considering they've got an already-delivered product that does that and more?
2) Notwithstanding #1, they NVIDIA can always change its mind if it's profitable to do so.
Interesting.
It does seem contrary to what VESA is saying on their official site. I can't see any reason to doubt what he's saying, though.
Quote:
NEWARK, CA (12 May 2014) - The Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA®) today announced the addition of 'Adaptive-Sync' to its popular DisplayPort™ 1.2a video interface standard.
If the technology has any worth at all though, I'm sure people will want that "Adaptive V-Sync" sticker on their box, so I don't think adoption will be a problem.
Very disappointing that they have no plans of supporting this open standard, though.
Interesting.
It does seem contrary to what VESA is saying on their official site. I can't see any reason to doubt what he's saying, though.
If the technology has any worth at all though, I'm sure people will want that "Adaptive V-Sync" sticker on their box, so I don't think adoption will be a problem.
Very disappointing that they have no plans of supporting this open standard, though.
Interesting.
It does seem contrary to what VESA is saying on their official site. I can't see any reason to doubt what he's saying, though.
If the technology has any worth at all though, I'm sure people will want that "Adaptive V-Sync" sticker on their box, so I don't think adoption will be a problem.
Very disappointing that they have no plans of supporting this open standard, though.
To put it another way, NVIDIA is hinting there that AMD is trying to gate them out of it. They likely figured they may lack a feature on the imminent Maxwell release. Don't worry NVIDIA, you will support it next time.
That's some mighty selective and misleading quoting you did there. Petersen was talking about a hypothetically mandatory A-Sync spec. Such a spec would make all existing monitor products not DP compliant, from the cables to all of the internal interconnects to the panels. But it's not mandatory, and all of Nvidia's GPUs will be DP compliant, along with everything else that already exists.
A-Sync is not mandatory. A-Sync is not mandatory. Again, A-Sync is not mandatory.
Not clear why this needed its own thread, though. "Not getting enough attention" is not the criteria for a news post.
^ GPUs take years to develop, you can't just squeeze things in at the last minute. They don't have any motivation to do that anyway, it just undermines gsync
He said "Our stance on that spec right now is that we don't support that, we have no plans to support it, and we don't need it because obviously we have G-Sync working on 1.2a"
He went on to say he doubted it'll be standard for DP 1.3 and if it is, it'll upset the entire scaler ecosystem and he'll have "a big question about that." He then goes on to say "if our GPU's didn't do it, we wouldn't -- no body would want our GPU's to not be DP 1.3 compliant." Which almost seemed to say they'd consider not including Adaptive Sync even it meant breaking DP 1.3 spec.
"standard" means two different things. There's "standard" as in "in all products standard, like four doors on a four-door sedan." There's also "standard" as in "contained within an official standard." Don't confuse them.
A-Sync will be in DP 1.3. It will not be required. It will be part of the standard, but it won't be in every display.
He's not saying they would break the DP spec, he's saying that VESA can't make it mandatory because it would create too large an immediate and unexpected change in the entire display industry, from the GPUs to the cables to the panels to the guts of the display. Nvidia will support DP1.3. DP1.3 won't mandate A-Sync as a required feature.
That's some mighty selective and misleading quoting you did there. Petersen was talking about a hypothetically mandatory A-Sync spec. Such a spec would make all existing monitor products not DP compliant, from the cables to all of the internal interconnects to the panels. But it's not mandatory, and all of Nvidia's GPUs will be DP compliant, along with everything else that already exists.
A-Sync is not mandatory. A-Sync is not mandatory. Again, A-Sync is not mandatory.
Not clear why this needed its own thread, though. "Not getting enough attention" is not the criteria for a news post.
It was selective quoting but I don't think you understood what I was getting at. It doesn't help that the thread title was too long so it cut off the word "spec."
As for whether or not it is news worthy, it wasn't getting enough attention because a lot of people were already assuming Adaptive sync will be mandatory and that Freesync will see wide spread adoption.
Instead of continuing to argue that point in other threads I felt it needed to be clarified with a direct source. The Nvidia engineer stated the reasons why fairly well.
He said "Our stance on that spec right now is that we don't support that, we have no plans to support it, and we don't need it because obviously we have G-Sync working on 1.2a"
He went on to say he doubted it'll be standard for DP 1.3 and if it is, it'll upset the entire scaler ecosystem and he'll have "a big question about that." He then goes on to say "if our GPU's didn't do it, we wouldn't -- no body would want our GPU's to not be DP 1.3 compliant." Which almost seemed to say they'd consider not including Adaptive Sync even it meant breaking DP 1.3 spec.
If adaptive sync is mandatory Nvidia has no choice with any of their new GPUs but anyone with an old GPU before this spec change is screwed.
By pointing out their old GPUs would stop being compliant he brings up a point I wasn't considering. What about TVs? Since HDMI is displayport's biggest competitor and firmly in the lead when it comes to adoption how can DP conglomerate afford to attempt forcing TV manufacturers switch to a whole new standard in scaler design?
"standard" means two different things. There's "standard" as in "in all products standard, like four doors on a four-door sedan." There's also "standard" as in "contained within an official standard." Don't confuse them.
A-Sync will be in DP 1.3. It will not be required. It will be part of the standard, but it won't be in every display.
He's not saying they would break the DP spec, he's saying that VESA can't make it mandatory because it would create too large an immediate and unexpected change in the entire display industry, from the GPUs to the cables to the panels to the guts of the display. Nvidia will support DP1.3. DP1.3 won't mandate A-Sync as a required feature.
It's difficult to put words in someone's mouth when you go out of your way to quote them word for word, which is what I did.
Standard means lots of different things, but I didn't take it out of context so I don't know why you're taking the time to explain this.
After he said it was unlikely that Adaptive V-Sync would be a standard (required) part of DP 1.3, he went on to say (if it was a required standard for DP 1.3) "if our GPU's didn't do it, we wouldn't want -- no body would want our GPU's to not be DP 1.3 compliant."
Why?
If DP 1.3 will not have adaptive sync as mandatory, and monitor manufacturers won't have it as part of their monitors, what is going to motivate them to support something only a few do?
There are standards in DP 1.2 which no one uses. It could be the same with DP 1.2+adaptive sync, or to DP 1.3 if it includes adaptive sync.
You already judged that DP 1.3 is going to have it, or that everyone are going to add it. That is yet to be seen. DP 1.3 has been delayed again and again, and you don't know how the industry will react to it, or how long it will be available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantmagnet
If adaptive sync is mandatory Nvidia has no choice with any of their new GPUs but anyone with an old GPU before this spec change is screwed.
By pointing out their old GPUs would stop being compliant he brings up a point I wasn't considering. What about TVs? Since HDMI is displayport's biggest competitor and firmly in the lead when it comes to adoption how can DP conglomerate afford to attempt forcing TV manufacturers switch to a whole new standard in scaler design?
There is more than just nvidia not being DP 1.3 compliant. You ignore the rest of the industry.
It will mean monitor manufacturers will have to delay their new monitors in order to make them DP 1.3, it might mean that monitors will not go quickly into DP 1.3 and prefer to support HDMI 2.0 first. It might also make it more complicated.
So I don't think adaptive sync will be mandatory any time soon, even at DP 1.3. Most likely we will have DP 1.3 and DP 1.3a or 1.3b which support adaptive sync as optional only, so it will not hinder anyone.
This way they will also make adaptation of adaptive sync even slower, if at all.
Regarding TV, I don't know if they will add DP to the mass market so quickly. They live in the HDMI world where they already pay for the standard, they already invested in it, but as super large companies do, it takes them a bit of time. And with HDMI 2.0, it could hurt DP even more to get into that market more.
I don't think too many expect ASync will be mandatory, but certainly monitor makers will want to take the opportunity to exploit that GPU capability as much as possible if it means selling more monitors. Given the number of GPUs that will support it, I'm thinking there will be plenty of options.
Regarding the OP, nv will have no choice but to adopt ASync once the rest of the industry goes there. If GSync had caught on, nv would have had at least 2 generations of card sales locked in, for those that bought GSync monitors. Those consumers wouldn't have had a choice, unless they wanted to lose variable refresh rates on their monitors, or bought another monitor. This is typical of NVidia, imagine if they were a monopoly.
ASync will not be a mandatory requirement of DP specification, at least not in the next decade - legitimate estimate here.
The changes required in the entire ecosystem to do such a thing would take untold amounts of money and many years to implement. You are talking about revisions across the entire system; source, display, potentially the cables between the two. VESA isn't going to suddenly tell all the manufacturers that they now need to support a feature that only a VERY small subset of users can currently benefit from. It isn't going to happen, that simple.
It will be optional and there for those that want to develop the hardware to support it to do so. For it to go mainstream the general public would have to start understanding things like pull down, frame rate of films, and how they would benefit from variable refresh on a TV. Good luck with that.
If adaptive sync is mandatory Nvidia has no choice with any of their new GPUs but anyone with an old GPU before this spec change is screwed.
By pointing out their old GPUs would stop being compliant he brings up a point I wasn't considering. What about TVs? Since HDMI is displayport's biggest competitor and firmly in the lead when it comes to adoption how can DP conglomerate afford to attempt forcing TV manufacturers switch to a whole new standard in scaler design?
Wow, he really did say, "We have no plans to support that". Really, Nvidia? Going to ignore free and open standards now?
Scaler manufacturers not supporting this "optional feature" due to hardware limitations is one thing, GPU vendor refusing to provide software updates to take advantage of compatible hardware is another.
Doesn't equate to bad either really too early to tell but I'm glad I didn't touch a Nvidia gpu for my desktop rigs since my GTX570. Open standards are a good thing.
So what about Adaptive Sync is so awesome to you that you've tried and have learned about from technical reviews that you hope NVidia drops a proven technology (gsync) that works great?
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