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post #121 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

Depends what your comparison is to. I'm comparing 27" 1080p vs 27" 1440p. The 1080p monitor is a jagged mess and basically requires AA to not look messed up, while the 1440p looks fine with 0.

1080p is fine compared to a jagged mess of 800x600 too.

I'm wasn't comparing it to any other resolution. I just disagree that AA makes little discernible difference at 1440p (and yes, on a 27"). It makes a smaller difference, sure, but it's still quite noticeable. Now 1440p on a 24" might be a different story but I won't rule out AA there without seeing it myself. Same goes for those 15" laptops running 1080p.
    
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post #122 of 136
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Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

1080p is fine compared to a jagged mess of 800x600 too.

I'm wasn't comparing it to any other resolution. I just disagree that AA makes little discernible difference at 1440p (and yes, on a 27"). It makes a smaller difference, sure, but it's still quite noticeable. Now 1440p on a 24" might be a different story but I won't rule out AA there without seeing it myself. Same goes for those 15" laptops running 1080p.

see this conversation kind of bugs me, AA is there because in 99% of of AA usage scenarios its because we have a hard edge line on something at an angle. We use 200% GPU power to try run a game downsampled to 1080p or just x24 supersampling at 200% performance hit. So why not take that 200% performance and make the edges more curved and less boxy and then just apply a nominal x1 AA.

you can watch a blueray 1080p movie and see the CGI there not having AA artifacts all over because aswell as using AA they also have much more complex models where there is not need to create Stepping artifacts, in rare cases where stepping occurs the best solution is actually more resolution on those specific bits (AA) but most of the time it's because we are still seeing low polly environments or terrible LOD at the middle distance on buildings and assets.

DSR or AA or even 4k are going ways to keeping things smooth but there not actually dealing with the generally crappy models on buildings/vehicles/terrain which creates bad jaggies to begin with.
post #123 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

you can watch a blueray 1080p movie and see the CGI there not having AA artifacts all over because aswell as using AA they also have much more complex models where there is not need to create Stepping artifacts...

You're missing the other reason: CGI in films is not rendered in real time so there's much less need to compromise quality to keep frame times low. Production studios have enormous render farms that spend hours rending a single frame (film CGI is often ray traced though so not apples to apples). There's no way your puny gaming machine can achieve the same quality and do it 60+ times a second.

Also, that Blu Ray film you're watching has been downsampled like crazy.
    
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post #124 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

Is that true? I've never heard of AA causing any input lag.

Yes, it's true. Something like MSAA is some sort of post-processing after the image is finished the way I understood it. It adds a tiny bit to the whole time needed to render a frame. About how much it is concretely, I for example heard 2 ms mentioned.

EDIT: Pretty sure "post-processing" is wrong but I don't know better words for what's happening.
Edited by deepor - 10/6/14 at 4:55am
post #125 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post

Yes, it's true. Something like MSAA is some sort of post-processing after the image is finished the way I understood it. It adds a tiny bit to the whole time needed to render a frame. About how much it is concretely, I for example heard 2 ms mentioned.

EDIT: Pretty sure "post-processing" is wrong but I don't know better words for what's happening.

It all depends on whether you have enough horsepower do it. If you GPU has a breathing room then it will add insignificant amount of "lag", if not then it will tank your FPS, which in turn would make intervals between frames longer, so in that sense it adds "lag".
post #126 of 136
I believe that AA does not add input lag at = framerates. So, input lag with 8xMSAA at 60 fps will not decrease if AA is disabled and still running no more than 60 fps. I heard that FXAA, though, does add the tinniest amount because it's a delay from when the frame has been rendered/calculated to actually being shown on-screen - it's an extra step in-between. Non-post-processing forms of AA (MSAA, and maybe even forms of supersampling?) are all done in the "original" render of the image rather than an extra step after the image has been sent to the monitor but before it get's displayed (hence why no increase of input lag @ equal framerates)

Of course, though, more/different forms of AA, AF, etc. take more power and can potentially lower framerates, but for a proper comparison, framerates should be the same in order to remove different framerates out of the increased/decreased-input-lag equation.

This is what I understood from all the research I've done, of course that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily correct.
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post #127 of 136
MSAA increases input lag, independent of FPS

you can tell the difference in CS:GO at 300 FPS 8XAA vs 300 FPS no AA
post #128 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apolladan View Post

MSAA increases input lag, independent of FPS

you can tell the difference in CS:GO at 300 FPS 8XAA vs 300 FPS no AA

That doesn't make any sense to me. I can see how there's input lag on TV monitors taht post process the finished image, but with pc monitors the AA is rendered within the render, not post image analysis. How would that add input lag?
Edited by clerick - 10/19/14 at 6:26am
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post #129 of 136
I would also like to know, with measurements if possible
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post #130 of 136
I can easily tell the difference in aiming with MSAA on or off. I leave it off on all FPS games.
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