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Fractal Design Node 804. Imho this is a near-perfect design. Am i wrong? - Page 3

post #21 of 32
I just looked at that Antec. It looks...interesting. Obviously being a small-ish case (it isn't technically cube), it would compete with these two. But, I think it would compete more directly with the Coolermaster HAF XB with the top-bottom design as opposed to the side by side design. Size-wise it would definitely be closer to the 240 just by the pictures. I have a good few inches between the end of my Strix 970 and the front fan in my case.
post #22 of 32
Got it yesterday- so far so good. Still waiting on my hard drive controller before it all comes together. Will probably do a test fit tonight with standard data cables, and fire it up if I'm happy with how it all fits.

Great cooling options on the case. It looks almost as good as the pictures. In quality, it is probably closer to the fact core case than the bigger towers. I was kind of disappointed in that sense, but my overall opinion may go higher once it is all together and running.
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post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocutusH View Post

My only concern about this case, is the front panel... Its too blank, and simple, and looks sad...

The case would easy allow a 5.25 space, or even two, for fan controlling.
The Corsair air 240's front panel is much better, since you can remove it without cabling, to simply acces the dust fitlers. And with corsairs case, you can even go horizontal mb, with top window, wich is awesome.
I also dont like the sideways usb's... i build my case in to to furniture (355x355 space), but even if this fits, its simply not ideal.. But then again, the Node is bigger, allowing for much better airflow, and interior...

Fractal Design's aesthetics are a matter of taste obviously but I personally love their clean look.

Regarding fan control, you really can't fit enough radiator into a case of this size where you'd have so many fans you need a fan controller. Something like the Swiftech 8-way PWM fan splitter is ideal. http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx One caveat; if you go with AP 15s for your rads, which are 3 pin, then you might want a fan controller. But even then, you can put 3-4 of those fans on a single header and control them with a temp curve using your motherboard utility or SpeedFan, and most matx boards will come with 3 chassis headers, so that should be enough. I personally do not like having to fiddle with knobs and touch screens, I far prefer temp curve automated fan control via motherboard headers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocutusH View Post

Did you see the Antec ISK600M? That kombines the space in the Node with the horizontal mb of the air 240 smile.gif I have really high expectations for that case... but i think it wont be as high quality. When it was showcased, i didnt see any dust filters for example.
(with a similar boring front panel tough smile.gif)

As far as I can tell that case only has 3 3.5" bays? And there is space in the bottom compartment to mount drives it looks like, but in the few pix I can find the hdds are mounted in the motherboard compartment, right in front of the front intake fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvergoat View Post

Got it yesterday- so far so good. Still waiting on my hard drive controller before it all comes together. Will probably do a test fit tonight with standard data cables, and fire it up if I'm happy with how it all fits.

Great cooling options on the case. It looks almost as good as the pictures. In quality, it is probably closer to the fact core case than the bigger towers. I was kind of disappointed in that sense, but my overall opinion may go higher once it is all together and running.

Look forward to hearing more about your experience, and also seeing pix!
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post #24 of 32
I was typing from my phone while getting new tires on the car---to clear things up a little. The quality is not as good as the R4 Define XL- it is much more like the Core micro tower....

Still, it turned out okay. I decided not to wait for the HBA for the hard drives, and the box is currently running freenas in a six drive raidz2 configuration. I am not going to finish configuring the box tonight, and definitely no data on it tonight, but I'm happy with everything.

It was a very tight fit with the SATA cables and the power supply, but the power cables worked out great, because I have a large number of SATA power adapters and spare power supply wires from the same power supply I have in my other server. I did wrap some electrical tape around the more colorful wires, but I had to use red SATA cables because I didn't have enough black cables in the length and configuration I needed. I used a Seasonic 660w Platinum (I have two of them, so I used the spare cables from the other) to configure my drives.

3 drives in each rack, the rear 2 drives were spaced from the drive closest to the side panel. This allowed me to use (both) my 3-plug SATA power wire with the final 90 degree connector on the drive closest to the panel, and the slack wire in the space between the first and the 2nd drive in. The 2nd drive used the 2nd SATA power cord on the wire, and the third SATA power plug went unused. On the other drive bracket, I repeated it with the other 3 plug wire. For the drives at the back-end, that were not connected directly to the third SATA power plug on the line, I used the short molex plug on my power supply to supply power via a molex to 2x SATA adapter. I did not have the correct orientation on the angled power plugs so I had to use straight power plugs, which, incidentally, happened to fit more easily than my SATA data cables. *I had some issues setting the O/S up, so I am slightly concerned that the power plugs on the last two drives don't fit well enough on the hard drives, but that's a different story.

As far as the data cables; I used the cables that came with some of my motherboards. They didn't have the long straight clips....just about 1cm of the end was the black clip on the red cables, but they were still a tad too long to sit comfortably over the power supply. I am thinking that maybe using the really pliable HBA cables will be the way to go, but I hesitate to take it all back apart, since my power cable on the third drive of both racks, is shared......however, if I do have a power problem on one of those drives, then I'll need to get back there anyways.

If you have questions, go ahead.
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post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by taem View Post

The FT02 had the right idea with a straight path airflow from intakes to cpu cooler/gpu and out the back with psu and hdd cages out of the way. But then they rotated the board mount so air moves from bottom to top. You need a specific type of gpu cooler to make that work, even SIlverstone says so.

the rotated mobo mount is not a flaw in the design. it is an intended feature that few can appreciate correctly. the rotated mobo design is NOT significant when fans are involved INSIDE the case. however the rotated mobo design is significant when looking at airflow OUTSIDE of the case. convection may not make much difference INSIDE the case, however OUTSIDE of the case, it ensures maximum separation of cool intake air from the hot exhaust air. convection will continue to carry the hot exhaust air up away from the cool floor intake air. the rotated mobo design makes it almost impossible for hot exhaust air from the roof to mix with the cool intake air on the floor because of basic convection physics. the only way for a rotated mobo design to have hot exhaust contaminate the cool intake is if the case was in a completely enclosed area where convection can NOT carry the hot exhaust away from the cool intake air.

same can not be said about conventional mobo mount design. there have been many cases where there is a HUGE intake fan on the side window not 3 inches away from the hot exhaust port of the GPU in the back. the low pressure generated from the intake fan on the side panel will naturally pull on the high pressure generated by the GPU/CPU exhaust and you end up with a thermal short circuit where the intake air comes from the hot exhaust air due to proximity.

Yes, you do need to be careful when shopping for a GPU that would be compatible with the FT02. however that is because we are looking at the best performance scenario. there have been many builds in the FT02 that did NOT use GPU coolers that is considered "compatible" with vertical mounting and the owners have not experienced any detriment from it. in terms of overall design, the rotated mobo design is still the most thermodynamically efficient design due to the convection advantage OUTSIDE of the case. many people think convection is an advantage INSIDE the case, but that advantage is completely negated once a case fan is involved.
post #26 of 32
Well, I also happen to have an FT-02 and a "non-ideal" video card. I can absolutely state that there is a temperature disadvantage with certain cards. I have an ASUS card with the dual fan cooler and even at stock the temps go above 70. This is the second card because the first was RMA'd due to temps going above 80. I like Silverstone cases, but the market is trending along with their design. I think they will drop it soon, which is a shame.

Edit: ASUS card is 780 Ti DC2 OC
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post #27 of 32
I'm thinking of going to microcenter this week to pick this case up. Only thing I don't like about it are the cables that attaches to the front panel. Why couldn't FD have made the slim OD and I/O stationary on the front panel?
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post #28 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

the rotated mobo mount is not a flaw in the design. it is an intended feature that few can appreciate correctly. the rotated mobo design is NOT significant when fans are involved INSIDE the case. however the rotated mobo design is significant when looking at airflow OUTSIDE of the case. convection may not make much difference INSIDE the case, however OUTSIDE of the case, it ensures maximum separation of cool intake air from the hot exhaust air. convection will continue to carry the hot exhaust air up away from the cool floor intake air. the rotated mobo design makes it almost impossible for hot exhaust air from the roof to mix with the cool intake air on the floor because of basic convection physics. the only way for a rotated mobo design to have hot exhaust contaminate the cool intake is if the case was in a completely enclosed area where convection can NOT carry the hot exhaust away from the cool intake air.

same can not be said about conventional mobo mount design. there have been many cases where there is a HUGE intake fan on the side window not 3 inches away from the hot exhaust port of the GPU in the back. the low pressure generated from the intake fan on the side panel will naturally pull on the high pressure generated by the GPU/CPU exhaust and you end up with a thermal short circuit where the intake air comes from the hot exhaust air due to proximity.

Yes, you do need to be careful when shopping for a GPU that would be compatible with the FT02. however that is because we are looking at the best performance scenario. there have been many builds in the FT02 that did NOT use GPU coolers that is considered "compatible" with vertical mounting and the owners have not experienced any detriment from it. in terms of overall design, the rotated mobo design is still the most thermodynamically efficient design due to the convection advantage OUTSIDE of the case. many people think convection is an advantage INSIDE the case, but that advantage is completely negated once a case fan is involved.

I don't doubt that FT02 is a better design, tests show that it's the king of air cooled cases. But the gpu heat pipe orientation issue is a big deal IMHO, to the point where the inverted mb mount almost amounts to a design flaw, given the reality of a market where at least half the Gpus you can buy have heat pipes oriented along the length of the card. CPU cooling is a lot easier than gpu cooling, and it's much easier to achieve quiet CPU cooling than gpu cooling.

This issue came up in the Powercolor pcs+ 290/x thread where a user was trying to crossfire in an ft02, he was going through various brands and not getting good temps. I was getting much better gpu temps in my silenced Define R4 with the same cards. He was getting better CPU temps, but mine were just fine, and quiet also. The problem was that the available 290s with the correct heat pipe orientation were the least effective coolers to begin with, and the ft02 couldn't make up for that, meanwhile, it couldn't take advantage of the better coolers due to the heat pipe orientation.

If the gpu market mostly had the correct heat pipe orientation I'd be all for the ft02 design, but as things stand, I would get an ft04 over the ft02. And I would prefer a direct air path cooling case with the hdd cages somewhere else over the ft04, like the node 804. Those drive cages, once populated, wreak havoc on airflow -- my Define R4 was doing great until I put the hdds in, and now temps are much higher and fans have to spin louder, and I'm looking to replace the case. (I have the Enthoo Primo and Node 804, both sitting empty ATM lol.)
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post #29 of 32
Make this case a mid size case and yes it would be the be all/end all of cases. Awesome, just too damn small.
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post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunan View Post

Make this case a mid size case and yes it would be the be all/end all of cases. Awesome, just too damn small.

That's the point... It's an mATX case. If you want a large mATX case then get a Phanteks Evolv or go buy one of Fractal's many very good Mid-ATX cases. Node 804 is built to have a small footprint and still offer enthusiast class performance (which it does).
 
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