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post #10871 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgunnas View Post

i'm beginning to think i'll need a hexcore on the next upgrade as most of the top games coming out are designed for quads, i've been refraining to say this about the 2500k, but ever since i put the G1 in I've known that it's outdated in some ways (at 4.8 it's still a beast). I really didn't wanna step on any1's toes but it's the realityi didn't get the 3570k at the time of my build due to heat, but ivys also had support for pci-e 3.0 (derp on my part). So ya, the 970 and new games exposed my cpu in a way and i've been looking toward skylake ever since, ddr4, hexcore, pci4.0, all that stuff. This is not aimed to make any1 with slightly older cpus feel bad. Just my 2 cents.


No no no no, I refuse to believe a 920 is a bottleneck already biggrin.gif It must be something else. If it is though, I finally have a reason to get a motherboard with some decent color layout. Now I have all these beautiful Plexi/nickel blocks on PCB's with orange, green, blue, black, white and yellow plastic on it. I'd have to replace every block as well... didn't think of that, this 920 is staying for at least another 3 years.
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post #10872 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgunnas View Post

i'm beginning to think i'll need a hexcore on the next upgrade as most of the top games coming out are designed for quads, i've been refraining to say this about the 2500k, but ever since i put the G1 in I've known that it's outdated in some ways (at 4.8 it's still a beast). I really didn't wanna step on any1's toes but it's the realityi didn't get the 3570k at the time of my build due to heat, but ivys also had support for pci-e 3.0 (derp on my part). So ya, the 970 and new games exposed my cpu in a way and i've been looking toward skylake ever since, ddr4, hexcore, pci4.0, all that stuff. This is not aimed to make any1 with slightly older cpus feel bad. Just my 2 cents.

I Have a friend whom I sold my 2500K to, and he LOVES it. Granted, he is in IT and doesn't do any gaming, but he loves how quick it encodes video, and file decompression is a snap (compared to his old Core 2, which, ironically I bought for him for Christmas in 2007)...

Anyhow, just wanted to share my thoughts, even games that do manage multicore well won't see much improvement, I mean, look at CPU usage even during the most demanding games, when I had the 2500K and a single 670 the usage never went above 20-30%, and that is on even Crysis style games. So I don't think there'll be much improvement, since most games are not really CPU intensive anymore, they have mostly been designed around the GPU.

Additionally, there is zero difference in performance between DDR3 and 4. Heck, there hasn't been a difference since DDR3-800 (anybody else benchmark that? I had some left over and Dr used to give it a shot lol Absolutely no difference, even with a RAMDisk).

As for PCIe 4.0... Meh. Even now, with multiple graphics cards running their communications over the PCIe bus instead of a dedicated bridge, they still don't even come close to maxing out the bus... Heck, you can run a 970 in PCIe 3.0 x8 mode and not see a difference. I only know this because I left my 670's plugged into both of the x16 slots when I first got it, and ran it in the bottom x8 slot on my motherboard, I thought I would see 'some' improvement after I moved it... Nopers, exactly the same scores.

On that note, I think that hexacore is still overrated. :-( Which is coming from a guy that moved from a quad core 4820K to a hex 4930K, and I can't see a difference. Only a few benchmarks showed any differebcet, and they don't represent real world because they were highly multithreaded apps (think cinebench), and I really doubt developers are going to do a great job moving to heavily multithreaded games, it's just not with it, when even the lowly dual core I3 processors can run games fine with a decent GPU (again, I only know because I have an I3-3220 in my server, and when I had to RMA my original P8Z77-V Pro I just tossed my 670 into that and all the games I played ran fine (BF3, Crysis 2, Far Cry 2/3, Portal 2, TF2 - those are all I can think of that I actually played, although, I didn't play much of Portal 2 or TF2 at that time)...

Regardless of all of that, don't be rushed into anything by those features, not a single one of them will matter for many years to come. I do understand the desire to upgrade though, I try to upgrade every two or three generations if I can... You are on two, and Broadwell will just be an iterative upgrade, so you are right to wait for Skylake. :-)
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post #10873 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by reev3r View Post

I Have a friend whom I sold my 2500K to, and he LOVES it. Granted, he is in IT and doesn't do any gaming, but he loves how quick it encodes video, and file decompression is a snap (compared to his old Core 2, which, ironically I bought for him for Christmas in 2007)...

Anyhow, just wanted to share my thoughts, even games that do manage multicore well won't see much improvement, I mean, look at CPU usage even during the most demanding games, when I had the 2500K and a single 670 the usage never went above 20-30%, and that is on even Crysis style games. So I don't think there'll be much improvement, since most games are not really CPU intensive anymore, they have mostly been designed around the GPU.

Additionally, there is zero difference in performance between DDR3 and 4. Heck, there hasn't been a difference since DDR3-800 (anybody else benchmark that? I had some left over and Dr used to give it a shot lol Absolutely no difference, even with a RAMDisk).

As for PCIe 4.0... Meh. Even now, with multiple graphics cards running their communications over the PCIe bus instead of a dedicated bridge, they still don't even come close to maxing out the bus... Heck, you can run a 970 in PCIe 3.0 x8 mode and not see a difference. I only know this because I left my 670's plugged into both of the x16 slots when I first got it, and ran it in the bottom x8 slot on my motherboard, I thought I would see 'some' improvement after I moved it... Nopers, exactly the same scores.

On that note, I think that hexacore is still overrated. :-( Which is coming from a guy that moved from a quad core 4820K to a hex 4930K, and I can't see a difference. Only a few benchmarks showed any differebcet, and they don't represent real world because they were highly multithreaded apps (think cinebench), and I really doubt developers are going to do a great job moving to heavily multithreaded games, it's just not with it, when even the lowly dual core I3 processors can run games fine with a decent GPU (again, I only know because I have an I3-3220 in my server, and when I had to RMA my original P8Z77-V Pro I just tossed my 670 into that and all the games I played ran fine (BF3, Crysis 2, Far Cry 2/3, Portal 2, TF2 - those are all I can think of that I actually played, although, I didn't play much of Portal 2 or TF2 at that time)...

Regardless of all of that, don't be rushed into anything by those features, not a single one of them will matter for many years to come. I do understand the desire to upgrade though, I try to upgrade every two or three generations if I can... You are on two, and Broadwell will just be an iterative upgrade, so you are right to wait for Skylake. :-)

I agree on most the stuff you say here, most of the stuff won't be noticeable. DDR3 1600 to DDR4 3200 is probably a 3% real world boost, i saw a post that compared the fps in games by just swapping ram, not sure how reliable that was but there's an improvement in minimum fps at higher resolutions.

That will be credited toward the cpu anyway. pci-e 2.0 to pcie 4.0 is similar in terms of performance difference.

The only thing i see different than what you said is on the newer games, Dragon Age and probably unity, witcher 3 will eat Quads alive, 2500k is probably good enough to run it but it takes 90% cpu usage on those games, or 70% on all 6 cores on a hex, seen on a recent post on Dragon Age benching.

Much appreciated input, definitely calmed down the urge after reading this post.
post #10874 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by reev3r View Post



I LOVE your rig! The card just hanging there reminds me of when I had my 840 Evo's hanging in the middle of my case where I was planning to mount them for display (after painting a logo on them)...

On that note, I also meant to ask, why does it take so much effort for your loop? I've never done anything special, don't even have fill/drain ports... And I could get my loop drained, replace my CPU, and refilled within an hour.

Heck, I just drained my loop, pulled my R4BE out (had to disassemble my entire loop), pulled the heatsinks off and replaced them with blocks, reassembled everything, reinstalled everything, re-tubed my loop, and refilled it in two and a half hours... lol I even have a PITA 400mm tube res that is too large for my case to deal with, I actually had to sit and pour the water out of it, not to mention that as soon as I crack a seal on my res, water starts pouring out, since it is in the middle of my loop...

So yeah, I am just curious if that is normal, does it take so long for everyone? Am I just lucky somehow that it is easier for me?

Haha thanks! And no, it doesn't take long. But the assembly of my loop took a few days. That's because my goal was the blue themed TJ07 on mdpc. I had to cut the midplate, drill holes, mount the fitting brackets in the midplate. Estimate tubing length, that had to be perfect cause the bottom tube had to be straight and not sag. Placing the reservoir in the exact right spot. Not to mention connection the pump and 480 radiator in the bottom with little to no space. Once you know which layout you want it's fairly easy. Now though I have to drain the loop from the bottom for which I have to disconnect the pump and drain the coolant in a bucket. Remove the GPU block, mount the new one, recut tubing etc. All in all it CAN be done in an hour but it's all the preparation that comes with it that turns it into a one day job. I do work at a very relaxed pace though biggrin.gif

It's not the easiest loop lay-out to work with but once everything is connected the way it should be it looks damn nice. Also, I'll be tearing it down completely because I want to check every block for gunk. It had 0 maintenance in the past 4-5 years, only a small refill every now and then. So every tube has to be replaced, every block/radiator flushed. I'll be mounting my SSD's and harddrives on blue illuminated plexi. It's been like this for over 4 years but it's all on the fast lane now. I'm in the middle of my exams so I had no time to spend money on booze or parties, hence 970 and all the watercooling stuff I bought biggrin.gif

Back to poor now though mad.gif

Edit:

This is all from my own experience. It's my first water-cooled rig which has now been 4 years since I touched anything WC'ing related. Add the OCD and installing a new block can take a week easily.
Edited by Enzo Who - 1/8/15 at 3:37am
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post #10875 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo Who View Post

No no no no, I refuse to believe a 920 is a bottleneck already biggrin.gif It must be something else. If it is though, I finally have a reason to get a motherboard with some decent color layout. Now I have all these beautiful Plexi/nickel blocks on PCB's with orange, green, blue, black, white and yellow plastic on it. I'd have to replace every block as well... didn't think of that, this 920 is staying for at least another 3 years.

An i7 920 @ 3.8GHz is not a bottleneck. Don't care what anyone else thinks in regards to this matter as this topic has been discussed on a million other threads. Its been proven that a sandy based 2 core/2thread CPU will bottleneck a GTX 970. Forget the benchmark scores. I only use 3DMark 11 Extreme to check stability. For me if it crashes on that then the overclock is not stable enough. The new benchmark Monster Online looks to be my new stability test.
To be honest the only reason I got a new CPU was that my board shat itself and I wasn't sinking $250 into an X58 board as tempted as I was.
If you want help overclocking that CPU a bit further let me know. From memory my QPI/VTT was at 1.35v and Vcore was at 1.288, ICH was at 1.2, DRAM at 1.64, IOH was at 1.2, LLC was extreme, Spread Spectrums were disabled. That should get you to 4.0GHz or 4.1GHz depending. 4.2GHz required 1.35v with QPI at 1.4v. I had decent clocker voltage wise but it had a dog of an IMC on it.
Edited by Team Grinder - 1/8/15 at 4:01am
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post #10876 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Grinder View Post

An i7 920 @ 3.8GHz is not a bottleneck. Don't care what anyone else thinks in regards to this matter as this topic has been discussed on a million other threads. Its been proven that a sandy based 2 core/2thread CPU will bottleneck a GTX 970. Forget the benchmark scores. I only use 3DMark 11 Extreme to check stability. For me if it crashes on that then the overclock is not stable enough. The new benchmark Monster Online looks to be my new stability test.
To be honest the only reason I got a new CPU was that my board shat itself and I wasn't sinking $250 into an X58 board as tempted as I was.
If you want help overclocking that CPU a bit further let me know. From memory my QPI/VTT was at 1.35v and Vcore was at 1.288, ICH was at 1.2, DRAM at 1.64, IOH was at 1.2, LLC was extreme, Spread Spectrums were disabled. That should get you to 4.0GHz or 4.1GHz depending. 4.2GHz required 1.35v with QPI at 1.4v. I had decent clocker voltage wise but it had a dog of an IMC on it.

It's been a long time since I last overclocked that CPU but I remember it was hard to get stable close to 4GHz. I don't remember why but I recall updating/downgrading the motherboard BIOS because some were very stable, others were not. I also had to pump a lot more juice in it nearing 4GHz. I remember having it stable at 3.9GHz but that was without hyperthreading so I eventually decided I preferred 3.5GHz with HT stable to 3.9GHz stable without HT. Thanks for the offer though, I might get back to you on that because I was planning on re-evaluating my CPU OC mainly because it's been a while.


Oh, I suddenly remember. My motherboard (GA X58 UD4P) had a lot of problems waking up from sleep when overclocked too high (the bus that is). I think thats why I settled for 3.5GHz. It needed a restart every time and no BIOS ever fixed this I think. I'm also not sure if it had anything to do with W7. I'm now running W8.1 so another reason to reevaluate the OC smile.gif

Edit:

I can't check the voltage cause I'm not at home but I think I'm pushing 1.35V on the CPU in the BIOS and it's a C0 stepping. D0's OC a lot better. C0's not so much. I was told to be happy with 3.9GHz.
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post #10877 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo Who View Post

It's been a long time since I last overclocked that CPU but I remember it was hard to get stable close to 4GHz. I don't remember why but I recall updating/downgrading the motherboard BIOS because some were very stable, others were not. I also had to pump a lot more juice in it nearing 4GHz. I remember having it stable at 3.9GHz but that was without hyperthreading so I eventually decided I preferred 3.5GHz with HT stable to 3.9GHz stable without HT. Thanks for the offer though, I might get back to you on that because I was planning on re-evaluating my CPU OC mainly because it's been a while.


Oh, I suddenly remember. My motherboard (GA X58 UD4P) had a lot of problems waking up from sleep when overclocked too high (the bus that is). I think thats why I settled for 3.5GHz. It needed a restart every time and no BIOS ever fixed this I think. I'm also not sure if it had anything to do with W7. I'm now running W8.1 so another reason to reevaluate the OC smile.gif

Edit:

I can't check the voltage cause I'm not at home but I think I'm pushing 1.35V on the CPU in the BIOS and it's a C0 stepping. D0's OC a lot better. C0's not so much. I was told to be happy with 3.9GHz.

C0 frown.gif. Yes 1.4v+ for 4.0GHz stable. Be very happy with 3.9. Generally as a rule 3.8 was pretty much attainable at decent voltages for a C0. 3.8 at 1.288v with HT on could be done. Depending on what batch. 1.35v seems like a lot even for a C0. 3.36GHz can be done on stock C0 voltages. If you need 1.35 then QPI might be too low and Vcore is compensating.
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post #10878 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Grinder View Post

C0 frown.gif. Yes 1.4v+ for 4.0GHz stable. Be very happy with 3.9. Generally as a rule 3.8 was pretty much attainable at decent voltages for a C0. 3.8 at 1.288v with HT on could be done. Depending on what batch. 1.35v seems like a lot even for a C0. 3.36GHz can be done on stock C0 voltages. If you need 1.35 then QPI might be too low and Vcore is compensating.

I'll PM you all the numbers when I get home so you can evaluate them. Yesterday I thought it was clocked at 3.7GHz but in reality it was clocked at 3.5 so if I can't remember the clock speed, don't even bother asking me what QPI biggrin.gif I have been tempted to sell it as second hand prices for C0 and D0 are pretty much equal. I've always questioned whether it was worth it though. I'd only consider it if my C0 was a bottleneck at 3.5 so I could get a D0 at 4.1 for free. But since that is probably not the case I'll leave it at that.
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post #10879 of 26194
Please add me to the member list. Just upgraded my rig to a EVGA GTX 970 FTW edition and have a second on the way to run SLI.
post #10880 of 26194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enzo Who View Post

I'll PM you all the numbers when I get home so you can evaluate them. Yesterday I thought it was clocked at 3.7GHz but in reality it was clocked at 3.5 so if I can't remember the clock speed, don't even bother asking me what QPI biggrin.gif I have been tempted to sell it as second hand prices for C0 and D0 are pretty much equal. I've always questioned whether it was worth it though. I'd only consider it if my C0 was a bottleneck at 3.5 so I could get a D0 at 4.1 for free. But since that is probably not the case I'll leave it at that.

There is a whole heap of hexa core Xeons going round cheap smile.gif They all pretty much clock 4.0 easy
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