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post #441 of 545
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post


P.S. I do take donations for providing useful information biggrin.gif.

lol, you are indeed very helpful and that's why I wouldn't buy a 4k TV for actual TV watching right now. I'm mostly thinking about strictly PC gaming in the future. I won't go back to 1920 x 1080 for gaming. I'm sure there are 4k TVs with really nice contrast though, I know some of the newer Samsung HDR ones reach around 3500:1. Although to be honest, using a 4k SPVA TV for PC gaming will be my last resort. I'd get a Samsung ultrawide 1440p 100 Hz variable refresh rate monitor first if it really does come out, since I really don't want to game without variable refresh rate ever again. Also I'll probably buy an Oculus Rift later after it launches and has some kinks sorted out, but it can never be my main display obviously.
 
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post #442 of 545
There is new technology in VA TV's called Local / Micro Dimming. That technology sort of sucks and its as fake as interpolation. I think I expained it before. Local Dimming divided TV into rectangular/square zones. For example, let's assume a TV has 16 zones (some do). If a zone is not used (100% black content) at all, then it can be turned off entirely, which produces very low black levels (black-black), equivalent of plasma TV's. However, if only 1 pixel of a zone needs to be lit up (used by non-100% black content), then the zone cannot be turned off and whichever part of the zone is not used will NOT have that high contrast ratio and you'll get gray-black. Now imagine a scene with a bright white circle in the middle of the screen and black background. Those zones with 100% black content will be turned off and look nice, but zones that would be used partially for edges of the circle would be gray. That creates an inaccurate and nasty halo / glow / bloom effect.

Also, HDR content has no true standard at the moment. It needs its own calibration (not fully standardized yet) and the content has to be filmed with HDR in mind. HDR content is also dependent on these zones, which means halo / glow / blood effect will persist. We need TV's with at least 10000 zones to minimize that nasty effect and the best panels today have only 384 zones.
post #443 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

There is new technology in VA TV's called Local / Micro Dimming. That technology sort of sucks and its as fake as interpolation. I think I expained it before. Local Dimming divided TV into rectangular/square zones. For example, let's assume a TV has 16 zones (some do). If a zone is not used (100% black content) at all, then it can be turned off entirely, which produces very low black levels (black-black), equivalent of plasma TV's. However, if only 1 pixel of a zone needs to be lit up (used by non-100% black content), then the zone cannot be turned off and whichever part of the zone is not used will NOT have that high contrast ratio and you'll get gray-black. Now imagine a scene with a bright white circle in the middle of the screen and black background. Those zones with 100% black content will be turned off and look nice, but zones that would be used partially for edges of the circle would be gray. That creates an inaccurate and nasty halo / glow / bloom effect.

Also, HDR content has no true standard at the moment. It needs its own calibration (not fully standardized yet) and the content has to be filmed with HDR in mind. HDR content is also dependent on these zones, which means halo / glow / blood effect will persist. We need TV's with at least 10000 zones to minimize that nasty effect and the best panels today have only 384 zones.

Yeah, whether or not a TV has local dimming doesn't affect my purchase. Also I think it's safe to say we're never going to see anywhere near 10000 zones, a wasted effort especially if OLED is somewhat around the corner.
 
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post #444 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm View Post

Damn... and I just ordered iiyama xb2783hsu-b1 just because those few reasons MonarchX and boredgunner listed before.

1. 4k needs too heavy hardware which I don't have enough money.
2. IPS glow is getting unbearable and the lackluster contrast is killing my gaming mood in so many games lately.
3. VA is not slow anymore and actually by doing research that iiyama should have faster pixel response than my current qnix 2710 @ 120hz
4. Price is usually lower on VA than IPS

ATM 4K HW requirements are the only factor I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and actually I'm downgrading from 2560x1440 to 1920x1080 just because even current resolution is taking too big of toll on my GFX card. I want more FPS and I happily give up on some resolution for proper contrast, fast response, almost no input lag(2.5ms) and 97% sRGB gamut monitor which can OC to 75Hz.

On my defend ordering iiyama I can say that the samsung is probably going to be 800-1300€ way too long for my wallet and nerves to wait on with this current horrid ISP tech.
post #445 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Drill View Post

3. VA is not slow anymore and actually by doing research that iiyama should have faster pixel response than my current qnix 2710 @ 120hz
To be honest, any monitor ever has faster response times than QNIX monitors. They don't know what overdrive is.
    
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post #446 of 545
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Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

Yeah, whether or not a TV has local dimming doesn't affect my purchase. Also I think it's safe to say we're never going to see anywhere near 10000 zones, a wasted effort especially if OLED is somewhat around the corner.

OLED isn't around the corner. Samsung, Panasonic, and Sony have decided that OLED is too young to be pushed forward in the next 2-3 years. LG, however, made more OLED advancements than anyone else and if we do see good OLED TV's soon, then they will be from LG.

Some current OLED issues:
1. They tend to have inaccurate colors that REQUIRE the use of 3DLUT's to correct colors and only on PC's, unless you want to spend additional $500 on a hardware 3DLUT device.
2. They are hard to calibrate with mid-range equipment like i1Display Pro / ColorMunki Display and i1Pro / ColorMunki Photo. They often require high-end $15000 hardware to get it right... Even then some of them have these odd green tints.
post #447 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

OLED isn't around the corner. Samsung, Panasonic, and Sony have decided that OLED is too young to be pushed forward in the next 2-3 years. LG, however, made more OLED advancements than anyone else and if we do see good OLED TV's soon, then they will be from LG.
Pretty sure Panasonic is buying OLED panels from LG and fixing the problems their TV's have, which makes sense to me as LG have always done a bad job of implementing EVEN their own tech.
    
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post #448 of 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post

Pretty sure Panasonic is buying OLED panels from LG and fixing the problems their TV's have, which makes sense to me as LG have always done a bad job of implementing EVEN their own tech.

Hmm.. I just researched again and Google and it appears different articles report different things. I know that other companies buy Sharp panels, which tend to have very inaccurate colors, but otherwise good quality (just not good parts aside from the panels themselves).
post #449 of 545
Panasonic has fixed the LG OLED Issues, at a cost of $10,000 USD per unit(10-bit processing and a native 10-bit panel etc.....No rec 2020). So basically, not affordable for the average consumer, hence OLED a way's off. My opinion not worth touching 4K OLED unless you are rich.

Reviewers all agree it's the best looking display ever made.

Quote from Panasonic Sept 2015:
Quote:
OLED PRICING WILL BE AFFORDABLE IN TWO TO THREE YEARS
"I'm very confident panel cost will go down," says Shinada, arguing that growth in OLED for business purposes (when the tech is used in signs or retail displays) will help to lower prices on the consumer side too. The TV boss expects that if panel suppliers can improve their yield ratios -- that is, the number of OLED panels produced that are fit to be put into TVs, rather than scrapped -- prices will drop dramatically. "Last year, the panel suppliers' yield was very, very low level" Shinada said. "But currently this ratio is now growing."

So 3 years away from it being affordable, or so they say.
Edited by Nightingale - 11/1/15 at 1:21pm
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post #450 of 545
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Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

If you want the absolute best image quality and motion ANY TV can provide then you need to go for high-end plasma TV's like Samsung 50" (or 60") PNF8500, which is considered to be the world's best TV with the best image quality by many reviewers and HT{C enthusiasts. I I think depending on how you calibrate, you can get 30000:1 contrast ratio out of it and near-absolute black levels. It used to cost only $1200 a year ago. What is special about it is that unlike most plasma TV's, PNF8500 is the first plasma that can provide HIGH brightness (highest of all plasma TV's ever build) that looks good in bright environments. Your other choices are the very expensive Panasonic VT60 or ZT60 plasma TV's with contrast ratio similar to Samsung PNF8500. These 2 Panasonic TV's are considered to be the best TV's not only by reviewers and HTPC enthusiasts, but also color scientists, professional calibrators, and display experts. There is also an amazing Panasonic ST60 (40" & 50") with contrast ratio of about 15000:1 (@ 120cd/m^2 brightness) after calibration. Its not the highest-end plasma, but high-end. It costs less than VT/ZT60, but I think the 40" version was sold only in Europe. I would best that ST60 is the BEST BUY for those NOT on the budget.
.

I'm with you, as a fellow Plasma TV owner(8G Kuro and now Panasonic ST60). I must add the only problem with respect to plasma and it's weakness is gaming. First both the Samsung and Panny have high input latency. Samsung F8500-> 56-68ms, Pansonic ST60 ->73.6ms,
VT60 ->47.9ms and this is in game mode. Second lot's of people have reported IR when using it for the PC and gaming(HUD in game is like a TV station Logo) this is with orbiter on. Nothing other than OLED can Touch Plasma when it comes to watching Films and motion clarity. I tried looking for an LCD unit that was good at both Games and Film, and none exist.
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