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post #61 of 104
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I picked what looked like the best wireless adapter, based on reviews and I had compatibility issues...

I might just pick either this motherboard or this one just to keep things easy for me when putting it together, it is expensive tough...so much for my budget.
post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mloc View Post

I picked what looked like the best wireless adapter, based on reviews and I had compatibility issues...

I might just pick either this motherboard or this one just to keep things easy for me when putting it together, it is expensive tough...so much for my budget.

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/xLJ499

i added the Z97 mobo so that you can upgrade to 14nm broadwell i7 later by next year and the mobo has 4+1 power phases so it'll allow fairly moderate overclock
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post #63 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre- View Post

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/xLJ499

i added the Z97 mobo so that you can upgrade to 14nm broadwell i7 later by next year and the mobo has 4+1 power phases so it'll allow fairly moderate overclock

I`d still need to get a wireless adapter for my wifi?

Could you suggest a wireless adapter?

If not I`ll just go with either of the motherboards I mentioned earlier..
post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mloc View Post

I`d still need to get a wireless adapter for my wifi?

Could you suggest a wireless adapter?

If not I`ll just go with either of the motherboards I mentioned earlier..
http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/4tpwCJ
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post #65 of 104
Hey, I'm joining in just now.

Preface / why I'm posting here:

I'm a developer / consultant (30+ years). I use CS6, and lots of graphics applications (3DS Max, Maya, etc) - and I consult for architects and professional photographers dependent on the CS6 suite (Lightroom / Photoshop / Premiere, etc.). Performance has been a huge issue for one particular professional photographer editing panoramic images in multiple layers in the range of 24,000 x 4,000 pixels (sometimes larger) in HDR.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a semi-pro it sounds like your usage pattern is standard high res photographs (12-16 Mpixels), probably some masking/layers/effects, but not something where a single PSD file exceeds 2 Gbytes.

It would help if I better understand your usage pattern. For example (this may not apply to you, but...) - when editing the large images I described, an i7 with 32Gbytes RAM and two 4 Tbyte drives (typical Dell workstation) Photoshop would periodically hang. This is why the client contacted me initially. By hang I mean he would edit a layer, which normally takes only a second or fraction thereof, but then everything, including the movement of the mouse cursor, would freeze, sometimes for seconds (max about 90 seconds), then suddenly return to normal. His problem was the "undo" cache. After some time of usage, the scratch disks would be so inundated with large file output on fragmented disks (poorly chosen and configured) that Windows itself was choking on the disk management duty (it's Windows Achilles heal). Simply moving his scratch disks to physically separate drives formatted with large allocation blocks, GETTING A UPS, and enabling the advanced disk caching features completely stopped the problem.

I detail that to show what I mean by usage pattern, and how understanding that could help target your budget intelligently.

For example, SSD's are wonderful, and my client purchased one to "speed up" his machine before he contact me. It didn't helped his problem because he was still not attending his scratch drive's configuration (hadn't even thought about it).

SSD's, as you're considering them, speed up boot time and software loading time, but once you get into a project their benefit is limited. If your scratch points to the SSD, it "overworks" the SSD - SSD's, especially the affordable ones, should be treated as "read mostly" drives, not the kind of thing appropriate to temp and scratch usage. They work, yes, and more modern SSD is better, but there is a limited amount of write duty before they can wear out. Leveling helps, but if you stuff an SSD to, say, 80% of capacity, the leveling feature is limited to 20% of what's left, creating uneven wear on the drive.

If the SSD is pushing your budget, you won't really miss it during the longest usage profiles (that is, deep into an editing project long after startup).

As to wifi - is there a specific concern (I see it mentioned, but I may have missed why it matters to you). That is, unless you're trying to target a distant router, or one on the other side of a wall that seems to shield signal, I've yet to find a wifi solution that's problematic.
post #66 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectre- View Post

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/4tpwCJ

Cheers man, I`ll keep that build in mind, smile.gif
post #67 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVene View Post

Hey, I'm joining in just now.

Preface / why I'm posting here:

I'm a developer / consultant (30+ years). I use CS6, and lots of graphics applications (3DS Max, Maya, etc) - and I consult for architects and professional photographers dependent on the CS6 suite (Lightroom / Photoshop / Premiere, etc.). Performance has been a huge issue for one particular professional photographer editing panoramic images in multiple layers in the range of 24,000 x 4,000 pixels (sometimes larger) in HDR.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a semi-pro it sounds like your usage pattern is standard high res photographs (12-16 Mpixels), probably some masking/layers/effects, but not something where a single PSD file exceeds 2 Gbytes.

It would help if I better understand your usage pattern. For example (this may not apply to you, but...) - when editing the large images I described, an i7 with 32Gbytes RAM and two 4 Tbyte drives (typical Dell workstation) Photoshop would periodically hang. This is why the client contacted me initially. By hang I mean he would edit a layer, which normally takes only a second or fraction thereof, but then everything, including the movement of the mouse cursor, would freeze, sometimes for seconds (max about 90 seconds), then suddenly return to normal. His problem was the "undo" cache. After some time of usage, the scratch disks would be so inundated with large file output on fragmented disks (poorly chosen and configured) that Windows itself was choking on the disk management duty (it's Windows Achilles heal). Simply moving his scratch disks to physically separate drives formatted with large allocation blocks, GETTING A UPS, and enabling the advanced disk caching features completely stopped the problem.

I detail that to show what I mean by usage pattern, and how understanding that could help target your budget intelligently.

For example, SSD's are wonderful, and my client purchased one to "speed up" his machine before he contact me. It didn't helped his problem because he was still not attending his scratch drive's configuration (hadn't even thought about it).

SSD's, as you're considering them, speed up boot time and software loading time, but once you get into a project their benefit is limited. If your scratch points to the SSD, it "overworks" the SSD - SSD's, especially the affordable ones, should be treated as "read mostly" drives, not the kind of thing appropriate to temp and scratch usage. They work, yes, and more modern SSD is better, but there is a limited amount of write duty before they can wear out. Leveling helps, but if you stuff an SSD to, say, 80% of capacity, the leveling feature is limited to 20% of what's left, creating uneven wear on the drive.

If the SSD is pushing your budget, you won't really miss it during the longest usage profiles (that is, deep into an editing project long after startup).

As to wifi - is there a specific concern (I see it mentioned, but I may have missed why it matters to you). That is, unless you're trying to target a distant router, or one on the other side of a wall that seems to shield signal, I've yet to find a wifi solution that's problematic.

My usage pattern would vary, I work on picture`s that would be around 5-12ish mb`s, also icons for mobile device`s,theme`s as well, which would`nt be to big.
There would be lots of layers, masks, smart objects,etc so the sizes can vary a lot, I don`t usually stick to one type of routine.

I also want to get into using some 3D with what I do.

Leveling, I`m not familiar with that term, what is it?

My router is far away and to run cables from there to where the PC will be is more hassle than it`s worth, so that`s why a wifi adapter on a motherboard would save me a lot of time and aggro.
Another concern is that the wifi adapter can pick up as much of the signal as possible, I`m not familiar with the range on them adapters.
post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mloc View Post

My usage pattern would vary, I work on picture`s that would be around 5-12ish mb`s, also icons for mobile device`s,theme`s as well, which would`nt be to big.
There would be lots of layers, masks, smart objects,etc so the sizes can vary a lot, I don`t usually stick to one type of routine.

I also want to get into using some 3D with what I do.

Leveling, I`m not familiar with that term, what is it?

My router is far away and to run cables from there to where the PC will be is more hassle than it`s worth, so that`s why a wifi adapter on a motherboard would save me a lot of time and aggro.
Another concern is that the wifi adapter can pick up as much of the signal as possible, I`m not familiar with the range on them adapters.

Your Photoshop usage pattern is about what I expected, and there's hardly a computer this side of 2010 technology that can't do well with that. There are times in my own work where I have lots of images open at once, which consumes a lot of RAM, but there's hardly a stretch for performance relative to workflow.

Now, 3D is an entirely different matter. The software can be very specific about what demands it places on the machine, and usage pattern is far more critical as to what requires compute resources. Sketchup, for example, cares little about the CPU, but requires significant compliance of OpenGL which many low end graphics cards don't handle well. Yet, for simple models there's little need for concern. An architectural firm I consult with, on the other hand, had a dual 2011 sock Dell workstation (12 cores, 24 threads) with 64 GBytes of RAM, previously devoted to 3D Studio Max (and did well there), which had a relatively weak graphics card. When the team moved to Sketchup, their little i3 dual core workstations with good graphics cards (Quadro k2000) ran nearly 3 times faster than the "monster" Dell computer, because Sketchup moves most of the work into the GPU, even at the user interface level.

A lot depends on what software you'll spend time learning for 3D, and what your target is (probably, like me, artwork for web sites, user interfaces, game development). These are usually not demanding targets, unless it's AAA artwork on human(oid) figures with flowing hair, flowing cloth, etc.

Blender, however, is something that works (as well as it ever does) just about everywhere. Practicable limits in 3D (size of models, type of modelling / texturing ) can range widely depending on what the software stresses and what resources you purchase.

Flash drives use "Wear Leveling" to even out the drive's write limitations. Flash technology wears out as you write data to it. The older technologies can only allow about 10,000 writes to a single location before they can no longer function. Newer tech magnifies this value, and it's difficult to know which you get, especially in bargain SSD drives. Wear leveling simply "walks around" the drive, purposefully fragmenting the write locations to even out the number of times each bit is re-written. In typical usage patterns there are some percentage of data which stays put, hardly ever changes. That will "lock" that data into that physical location. As that "rarely changed" data grows in volume, less of the drive is available for wear leveling to "walk around" the drive, limiting the beneficial effect of wear leveling. When SSD's are used as temporary storage, the amount of re-writing can grow to large volumes, especially on smaller SSD's with significant "rarely changed" data. Newer tech with orders of magnitude higher write counts are more expensive for the same relative performance, and the technology is still "in flux" - still changing.

Personally I'm not a big fan of SSD drives. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the implication and do enjoy the performance implication, but I can't really use them in my usage patter well. I need about 3 TBytes of frequently changing OS information (multiple virtual machines), lots of writing / changing, and too large an information base to be practicable, but that's unique to my case. It's why I suggested that if the SSD is crowding the budget, then skip it. If you're accustomed to them you'll miss it, but the benefit is largely at initialization of the OS, launching programs and other operations whereas when your general data is still on rotating drives - they're not affected. You get considerable boost on rotating hard drives with the advanced cache options turned on, but they are "dangerous" without a UPS (a power failure, for example, can end up ERASING - well, loosing - all content on your drives).

Wifi range can be dictated as much by the router as the card (both are to be combined). 100 feet is typically a good range. Many reach 300 feet. There's an entire hobby of people trying to find neighbors who don't know to lock their WiFi routers with keys, to get free Internet. Some fashion foil into parabolic reflectors to gain up to about 500 feet.

In other words, with a really good router I've seen $15 WiFi cards (with external antennae) reach 500 feet, and I've seen really good cards (expensive, well reputed) fail at 100 ft because the router was weak or poorly placed. A fair indicator is a typical cordless telephone. If you have zero problem with a typical cordless telephone over the range involved, you generally have little trouble with WiFi.

There are repeaters, too. These are devices you can drop in a location between your computer and the router to boost the signal. Many are in the $25 range. Most are fashioned to plug into wall sockets and otherwise require little setup.

I use Wifi on mobile devices when at home. I have two floors. The router is upstairs. Coverage extends to my front yard, back yard, all over the house.

Just, not the kitchen. The kitchen is closer to the router than any other location except the room the router is in. There are two reasons WiFi in the kitchen is lousy. One, the electrical breaker box is in the kitchen. It effectively acts like a large grounded shield. Second, the microwave oven. If it's on, there is no WiFi signal.

Just food for thought about WiFi.
Edited by JVene - 10/23/14 at 11:51am
post #69 of 104
Thread Starter 
Jesus man, that`s a mouthful, lol.

I appreciate all your info, I think your on a godly level, compared to myself, I look up to the clouds as you type your words of wisdom, smile.gif

So in a nut shell, what do you recommend, I change or get from what I have in my parts list.

You must have started out early on and built up to where you are now, in regards to PC builds, am I heading (generally) in the right direction?
post #70 of 104
You are generally in the right direction.

You might consider a repeater for WiFi if you have a concern, rather than trying to get the best WiFi card - and then really only if you need it.

If you're 3D interests lean towards Blender, you're fine - but 3D loves RAM. I hesitate to say get more RAM because it's so expensive, and if you gravitate towards Sketchup (very popular) then the RAM content of the graphics compliment is more important.

Yeah, I've done this for a long, long while....the 70's!

I'm a developer, focusing these days on mobile applications, but I've done everything from business applications to engineering software, manufacturing systems, plugins for 3D Studio, Maya, AutoCAD...all over the map.

I've been considering an i7 upgrade myself, so I've been visiting around here, updating my awareness of the current products.
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