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Single pass radiator - Page 2

post #11 of 19
That post was in context of liquid flow restriction, and not air flow restriction. Also, the Nemesis 240GTS X-Flow has a 16 FPI, not 30, and works pretty well at those fan speeds also.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

It isnt tubes that restrict the air flow, it is fpi. And hardware labs GTS 240 Xflow has 30 fpi, which will require high speed fans to perform well, vs alphacool ST30 fpi of 8. Wihglah is using 1500 rpm fan speeds, much more suited to alphacool ST30 fpi.

According to HW labs own site, the 360X (20 fpi) outperforms the GTS rad both xflow (30 fpi) and dual pass. And martin testing shows alphacool ST30 outperforming 360X by 7.5% at 1400 rpms fan speed (closest to Wihglah fans), so it will beat GTS series even more at same fan speed, especially given GTS has even higher fpi.

If you look at what specifically Wihglah was asking between alphacool ST30 and GTS 240 X flow, it is the high fpi (30) that will make the 240X flow worse than alphacool ST30 for his fans. Unless he wants to change and go with loud fans, ie >2000 rpms.

Right... except you're vastly exaggerating exactly how much it's outperforming them..... It's 11watts..... That's less than a .05celcius thermal difference... Also, what geggeg said, Nemesis series has far less fin density, so those tests of the older HWLabs rads are highly irrelevant. So..... yeah.....

-Z
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post #13 of 19
gotcha
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Right... except you're vastly exaggerating exactly how much it's outperforming them..... It's 11watts..... That's less than a .05celcius thermal difference... Also, what geggeg said, Nemesis series has far less fin density, so those tests of the older HWLabs rads are highly irrelevant. So..... yeah.....

-Z

At 1400 rpms the difference between the alphacool ST30 and HWlabs 360gtx is 15W, which is 7.5% difference. And yes that is a small amount, and in my original post that was my point.

I think we all agree it is a small amount, but apparently definition of small is the issue. .05C is not correct. If you go back and look at Martins data, his delta air to water was 11.14 C on HW360GTX, and 10.39 C on ST30 at 1400 rpm fan speed. That is roughly 0.75 C, about a degree, which is what I guessed with 10%. And GTX outperforms stealth rads according HW labs site.
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post #14 of 19
Those are all different rads from what the OP is asking about so how is that relevant to this discussion?
post #15 of 19
The original question was how much performance giving up with single vs dual pass as I understood it. There are no direct comparisons of the exact 2 rads he suggested. But there is a thread on this site where people were stating you get nearly 2x the performance with dual pass, which is silly. I was pointing out that he would not be giving up much performance, only 10-15% (at max).

There is little if any 240 rad data, but brand differences should compare across 360 to 240. One of the rads martin tested was alphacool ST30 which OP was asking about (just 240 instead of 360), and was compared to HW360X (which manufacturer claims is better than one HW rad OP asking about).

So, I gave a general comparison and indirect comparison, but I tried to use past testing instead of guessing based on how thin tubes were.

Now can you give some better direct testing (comparable to Martins, ie with controls/accurate probes) to support claim that there is less than that difference?
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post #16 of 19
I am with you there- expecting 2x the performance with dual pass vs single pass is probably not realistic anymore. I was just referring to the particular examples being used here, not the basic idea itself thumb.gif
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by opt33 View Post

The original question was how much performance giving up with single vs dual pass as I understood it. There are no direct comparisons of the exact 2 rads he suggested. But there is a thread on this site where people were stating you get nearly 2x the performance with dual pass, which is silly. I was pointing out that he would not be giving up much performance, only 10-15% (at max).

There is little if any 240 rad data, but brand differences should compare across 360 to 240. One of the rads martin tested was alphacool ST30 which OP was asking about (just 240 instead of 360), and was compared to HW360X (which manufacturer claims is better than one HW rad OP asking about).

So, I gave a general comparison and indirect comparison, but I tried to use past testing instead of guessing based on how thin tubes were.

Now can you give some better direct testing (comparable to Martins, ie with controls/accurate probes) to support claim that there is less than that difference?

Direct testing comparisons on the GTS series? There's a snowball chance in hell, let alone the new GTS Nemesis series. redface.gif Anyways, at 1GPM it takes 260 watts to heat water by 1c, so that's what I was basing my .05c numbers on. Maybe it doesn't stack similarly in the opposite direction. Anyways, yeah I guess 7.5% is pretty significant on paper and pencil, but 1c difference coolant temp isn't going to make a huge deal in core temps. I still say go with whatever makes tubing routing easier, it'll save you a headache in the future.

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post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
I thank everyone for their input - it was appreciated.

I'm looking for a 4-5*C improvement in core temps by adding the 240, so losing 10% (or even 7.5%) seems small, but I can't bring myself to do it.

I think a standard 2-pass rad will be the way I go.
post #19 of 19
well.. just to make things even more interesting:

Not all x-flow radiators are single pass. Most of them are, but not all of them.

Also, some are single pass , double row (eg HWl Extreme III) which put those at the same performance level as your "standard" U-flow

A variant of that is a double pass, double row .. with some interesting plenum chambers... smile.gif

And then there is of course also :


But then you are in MORA, AMS, HTSF and "admiral" territory smile.gif

PS: U-flow rads exist in at least two variants: your standard "left or right around the bend"
and the "over/under" U - which is by definition a double row smile.gif
Edited by RnRollie - 10/23/14 at 4:49am
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