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[TweakTown] TSMC delays the mass production of 16nm FinFET chips by up to 6 months - Page 3

post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberrero View Post

Yup. Everything is moving at a snail's pace. Modern CPUs are barely faster than Nehalem, and only slightly faster than Sandy Bridge (overclocked). Broadwell seems like it will also be only a marginal improvement as well, despite the new process.

Hard drives and ram have been stagnant in terms of storage/dollar for years. In fact, the value proposition has actually gotten worse if anything. Samsung was selling 1TB drives 3 years ago for as low as $50 a pop. 8GB of RAM was also $50 back then too, which I think is still less than what DDR3 sells for today.

Video cards seemed to be the one thing that was actually seeing steady progress, but that is obviously coming to an end.

On the bright side, mobile SOCs are advancing faster than Moore's Law, doubling in transistor count every year or so. Also, SSDs are quite affordable now, even for mass storage, and all with incredible performance.

Gpu stalling performance is probably more due to the duopoly making agreements to not be too competitive. Amd and nv were both found guilty a while ago colluding.
Maxwell showed us what 28nm was still capable of... 2 years later!?

Same for hdd with the flooding and ram with the alleged memory shortage. Surprisingly, ssd performance and price greatly improved!
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post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a nickname View Post

Gpu stalling performance is probably more due to the duopoly making agreements to not be too competitive. Amd and nv were both found guilty a while ago colluding.
Maxwell showed us what 28nm was still capable of... 2 years later!?

Same for hdd with the flooding and ram with the alleged memory shortage. Surprisingly, ssd performance and price greatly improved!

3 years latter?

It actually showed nothing. 28nm to 20 nm will lower power consumption if you just port the design but you can still lower power consumption in other ways. GTX980 is big die because of 28nm. If theoretically it had been 20 nm it would have had same properties has the current one with smaller die size. You know my theory for GTX980 is simple. Instead of Nvidia building a desktop GPU/Core and then stepping it down for mobile then did the opposite. They designed a mobile GPU and then clocked it to the roof. Kind of like Pentium M.
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post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by MapRef41N93W View Post

No that's definitely not correct. Haswell is 10-15% better clock for clock over Sandy Bridge. It's 30-40% better clock for clock over Nehalem.

It's smaller than that. Let's look at them clock for clock.

Here, see the clock for clock scores:
http://www.overclockers.com/intel-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu-review




A 4790K and a 3770k will probably net you around 4.7-4.8 GHz, with a few bad ones going below 4.7, after a delid, assuming perhaps 1.325V or less. The 2600k could get perhaps 4.7-5.0 GHz, assuming 1.45V or under. So factor in the 2600k's higher clock speed and that margin diminishes even more.

It's only with the newer instruction sets that Haswell really makes a difference and that's at the expense of power consumption. I suppose compared to the 2600k, the 22nm chips do have the advantage of PCI-E 3.0, in the case of Haswell more SATA 3.0 and USB 3.0 that are chipset native. But the performance gains there are relatively marginal.

Edit:
In other words, there really hasn't been the massive single threaded performance gains over the past few generations. Given the difficulties that Intel has had with 14nm, I suspect that 14nm and Skylake will continue this trend.

The only real exciting thing for desktop users throughout this time has been the advancement in GPUs, and in storage technology. SSDs are now "good enough" so to speak for the read-heavy usage that consumers have, and although there will be performance gains (especially with NVMe and PCI-E), the main focus is now price per GB.

I suspect that GPU progress has also slowed down. It's always easier to make GPUs faster because of their parallel nature, but even they are dependent on process technology.
Edited by CrazyElf - 10/20/14 at 9:07am
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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

It's smaller than that. Let's look at them clock for clock.

Here, see the clock for clock scores:

People don't care about "averages" on synthetic benchmarks, we care about performance on real-world apps that we use. Averages really screw things up when most of the benchmarks/programs are not CPU intensive.
post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorea View Post

People don't care about "averages" on synthetic benchmarks, we care about performance on real-world apps that we use. Averages really screw things up when most of the benchmarks/programs are not CPU intensive.

x264 and 7 zip are the ones that you should look closely at then. Most of the applications listed in the images above are relatively CPU centric. That's the thing. I'm not sure you read the review. The review did not look at applications that were GPU-bound.

As far as gaming goes, if you have a 2700k Sandy Bridge or later, then there's no point in upgrading the CPU+motherboard. The money is far better spent on SSDs and GPUs. Gaming is GPU bottlenecked more than anything else.

As far as the other CPU-intensive stuff, let's see - video encoding, file compression, encryption, CAD, rendering, etc. Those you do get somewhat better performance on. Whether it's justifiable to upgrade again, it's open to debate. It depends on the user.

The other is that it heavily depends on if the application takes advantage of the new instruction sets. The new sets give ~20% improvement in most cases, at the cost of power consumption.
Edited by CrazyElf - 10/20/14 at 11:01am
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post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyElf View Post

x264 and 7 zip are the ones that you should look closely at then. Most of the applications listed in the images above are relatively CPU centric. That's the thing. I'm not sure you read the review. The review did not look at applications that were GPU-bound.

As far as gaming goes, if you have a 2700k Sandy Bridge or later, then there's no point in upgrading the CPU+motherboard. The money is far better spent on SSDs and GPUs. Gaming is GPU bottlenecked more than anything else.

As far as the other CPU-intensive stuff, let's see - video encoding, file compression, encryption, CAD, rendering, etc. Those you do get somewhat better performance on. Whether it's justifiable to upgrade again, it's open to debate. It depends on the user.

The other is that it heavily depends on if the application takes advantage of the new instruction sets. The new sets give ~20% improvement in most cases, at the cost of power consumption.

Dolphin emulator uses the new instruction sets and Haswell gets a ~30% performance increase over Ivy Bridge.
post #27 of 44
^avx2?
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post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darklyric View Post

^avx2?

Nope, AVX2 is not what gives Haswell the huge advantage in Dolphin over Ivy/Sandy as AVX2 is not supported by Dolphin (and the Pentium G3528 at 4.7GHz which does not have AVX2 instruction set support scores as high as any Haswell chip).
 
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post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberrero View Post

In any case, Nehalem is 6 years old now, and even if modern CPUs are 100% faster, that's still a lot less than what many of us would have predicted at the time. If they had doubled in performance every two years then current CPUs would be 8 times faster.
Moore's Law does not say doubling of performance though....

Power consumption is drastically down plus there's a capable GPU now. That's what those extra transistors have been used for.
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post #30 of 44
as long as we have single GPUs that are strong enough for 4K at the same time we have really good and affordable 4K displays I am fine with it.

though if it was up to me I'd have it rather sooner than later lol thumb.gif
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