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[NPR] When Women Stopped Coding - Page 2

post #11 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

so what's the argument now considering all college and high school students have access to computers? why hasn't the number drastically risen over the past decade?

you have to consider in 1984 as well that this was the birth of personal computers and at the edge of the creation of visual uis. the number of people hired by the industry and the scope of the industry was about to broaden drastically. looking at one factor because it fits your narrative is not very objective not to mention, many of these areas in the hard sciences do not fair much better for women.

something like 90% of professors who teach in the hard sciences are men...that's a much worse percentile than for comp science majors specifically.

To look at the professional layout of today, you have to look back 30-40 years when the people in those positions were educated. To have 30-40 years of experience, you would have started your career in the 70's. Check the demographics of higher education then and you will see it closely relates to today's professorship. Looking at today's college enrollment statistics, in the next 30-40 years we will see a more diverse group ready to step into those jobs.
 
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post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by subyman View Post

To look at the professional layout of today, you have to look back 30-40 years when the people in those positions were educated. To have 30-40 years of experience, you would have started your career in the 70's. Check the demographics of higher education then and you will see it closely relates to today's professorship. Looking at today's college enrollment statistics, in the next 30-40 years we will see a more diverse group ready to step into those jobs.

true, i'm just saying that computer sciences are hardly unique in their gender skewing. very much like other fields like engineering or physics.

also i just don't agree with the logic of "let's look at one factor and draw large conclusions."
not saying it couldn't have been a factor or wasn't to some degree at that time. but to ignore all the other factors and fail to engage in more quantitative and objective analysis on the issue is dumb and lazy reporting. especially the wide availability of computers today to all students and a quickly changing industry.

there's so much oversimplifying of an issue to push a political perspective in the media today, perhaps due to the death of the traditional media and slashed budgets. everything has to be aimed at a small, political vocal group (left or right) and objectivity has been thrown out the window.

but hey, it's just not as exciting to say, "this issue may have caused this effect to some degree, based on these reasons." as opposed to, "this caused this rabble, rabble, rabble."
Edited by perfectblade - 10/19/14 at 5:12pm
post #13 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

i disagree with part of the analysis. 84 was right around the time all the affirmative action and equal opportunity employment laws were fully extended to women, it also is around the time women started to see a larger chunk of money, and better wages. It was also right around the time the equal rights amendment was nearing the end of it's lifespan.

84 is also TOO SOON for computers = boys toys... that really didn't come around till a bit later (closer to 88-90).

I suspect the reason why there was equality between the genders up to 84 in computer science is for a much simpler reason. Computer science isn't any different from other "engineering" course work, it tends to be heavily weighted toward men, so this is nothing new, however the early parity was likely artificial. You see, until the early 80s the almost all typists were women. computer science, computer programing had a very real technical wall to hurdle, it required typing proficiency skills not found in men, which left the door open wide for women. I am willing to bet the number of people in computer science grew pretty much in line with the number of men in the field... see... 84 is around the time the home pc became "affordable"... while typewriters had been around for decades many men saw them as tools for "women", as unfortunately it was almost exclusively a device women used. this was true in my house. When we got our first home pc, it was right around 85... we had a typewriter and an apple II. My mother continued to use the typewriter, while my father used the apple II almost the moment it entered the house.

BTW: my mother was not a technophobe, our first home video game console (an atari) was something my father bought my mother for xmas, and she was most certainly the biggest fan of it, mastering frogger and pong and pretty much every arcade game she played as a kid. that said she DIDN'T like the apple II... it was too much hassle to type stuff up and use it like her typewriter so she simply was frozen out of PCs until they became more user friendly. (which would take another 10 years)

What happened in around 84 was boys learned how to type. and they learned it on PCs. computers back then were so archaic you had to know a little something about tech to use them. So they created an artificial barrier to people not interested in tinkering. I suspect the root of the issue lay in older stereotypes about typewriters and women, it probably wasn't until the late 80's - early 90s that the "atmosphere" and the stereotype of computers being a "boys" thing took root.

I really like your theory, a lot more than the writer's theory anyways. Add in the fact that most typists were women theory above and I think your article would be much more enticing than that npr one. thumb.gif
post #14 of 53
Both my parents were computer programmers, my mum started on punch cards 42 years ago!
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post #15 of 53
i know my mom had a lot more programming experience in college than my dad did.

the fun thing about this is that it disproves the common assumption that there's some innate biological bias that makes women not want to be programmers. all you need to do is look back a few decades and it's immediately disproven.

i have a feeling if we didn't expect women to do the majority of childcare that we'd have a lot more equal representation in a whole range of fields wink.gif
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post #16 of 53
I'm all for women programming. If they enjoy the same program I do, props! If not, I hope they're good at the programs they're good at/like as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverOfIce View Post

Having known women in computer science I will tell you one little dirty secret, men encourage women to program. It is other women that tell women NOT to do computers. Not joking. My partner was in college for computer science, she was told by her female college supervisor that she would be unhappy in computer science and she should go into nursing.

If you ask the women if they have ever seen male geek culture push women out? Yes. But they will also finish that sentence with, "not nearly as much as other women do."

Yes, computer science is male geek dominate, it requires you to prove you know what you are doing, but that is not why women are avoiding it.

The stigma of computer science being men only is set up by men, but it is enforced by other women.

I've actually noticed that too. Why does it matter what major they're going into when it's THEIR lives and THEIR decisions!?
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post #17 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSCoder4ever View Post

I've actually noticed that too. Why does it matter what major they're going into when it's THEIR lives and THEIR decisions!?

because it's not about what individuals want. it's about social engineering for the sake of providing moral support for the neo-liberal agenda
post #18 of 53
The loss in precentage is because programming pre-90s was considered a clerical job. Most clerical jobs were mostly done by women. When it became an art or even more technical than that it boosted a significant boom that appealed high school kids from the 80s to pursue it as careers/college in the 90s. Arcade craze pre-90s can be thanked for that mostly too. I don't follow these precentages really, people make their own choices as to what careers they do these days. Even while greatly being influenced by the environment we're not as sexist today as the early 18-1900s. Extreme feminism and masculism is blatantly stupid. Pursue your dreams and don't let the world weigh you down because they tell you otherwise.
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post #19 of 53
my parents in late 60s both studied electrotechnics and number of boys and girls in field was 50/50

i finished my masters in IT in 2003. it was 800 of us who started, only 230 finished university 5 years later. of the 230 we had 2 women. 1 was good programmer, other had a boyfriend to do all her stuff, naturally she dumped him after she got her degree tongue.gif

right now i have one female colleague, who studied natural sciences because she wanted to be a teacher. both her parents are sap abap programmers. after getting to enjoy our bright next generation as a high school teacher, she became a sap abap programmer. i also have another colleague who does some java oracle stuff i think. guess we have less than 10% women out of group of 25

ou and that article is just another propaganda push. lets be honest. it wouldnt have been published if it wasn following the propapaganda
i lived under commies, so my people can read all this propaganda BS and just laugh about it
post #20 of 53
Funny I watched an hour and half long video on a equality feminists thoughts on this very subject.

If you don't feel like watching it, it's basically : Women with choices most often do not choose to do the same professions as men, because they don't have as much interest in it. It is not an injustice, it is women choosing to be different, because they are different.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ZxpN02ciw#t=58m15s
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