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[kotaku]The Kind of Video Game Violence That Disturbs Me - Page 22

post #211 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

If youth murder is down, but school murder is up, doesn't that mean the schools are the problem?
Absolutely. Schools do not do enough to combat mental health problems. It's changing though. And I think in many cases with proper care it would be enough to save lives. Sandy hook nutcase was homeschooled though.
post #212 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro2u View Post

Yes your source is youth crime in general not school violence. You are not doing your cause any service.
Here is a chart representing incidents of school shootings in the us:

Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/school-shootings-chart-2014-6
There is less crime in general since the 1970s and following that trend school "traditional" violence like fist fights have sharply declined (cops in the schools, cameras) however Murders and suicides at school have gone way way up.

So you're only specifying violence that happens at school? So now your position is that violent video games promote schoolground violence, not just violence in general? Fine.

Homicides by Students on School Grounds During the School Day: 1992-93 to 2010
HomicidesInSchools.png
source

Image is too large to paste here, scroll down on this page to the graph



From your "source":
Quote:
As a big caveat, the chart was made using data from Wikipedia's list of school shootings in the U.S.

All they did is look at Wiki's list of school shootings and compile them into a chart by year. And that's limited to only shootings, not violence. Are you being serious right now? And you say I'm not doing my cause any service?
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post #213 of 266
People getting upset about this thread. I'm a gamer... I like swinging swords in games and I like violent car crashes with proper physics in games. What I don't like is seeing people beg for mercy or burn to death after the wreck. Most games don't focus on these things and I disvourage that kind of development. I would not, however, attempt to sensor these things. They are part of the realism of car accidents and murder/rape and should not be ignored I just personally don't thing it's good to be subjected to it over and over and over. We know this because it turns good children into gang members over time. They see a world filled with violence and they settle in because it seems the norm. But the larger world isn't so. They have a narrow view, unlike anyone here--we can focus on whatever part of the world we want to. If you want to listen to girls begging for mercy (Jp pronz isn't causing massive rape it's just a cultural turn on I guess) I am very confident it won't affect your concept of reality 99.9999999% of the time.
But as they used to say in racing, the more races you show up for, the more likely it is you'll die in a racing car.
post #214 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro2u View Post

We know this because it turns good children into gang members over time.

Source? Or are you now saying that seeing this stuff in video games is equivalent to seeing those things in real life? Which would again require a source.
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post #215 of 266
Thread Starter 
About 200 posts ago I said "Would you rather have people believe killing others is quick and without suffering? If anything, this conveys just how terrible it is to take a life."

Is it possible that non-gory killing of only "evil people" desensitizes people to the idea of murder more than gore? Some kids might think you just point and click, then the person goes to sleep.

I love playing devil's advocate on this stuff.
post #216 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

So you're only specifying violence that happens at school? So now your position is that violent video games promote schoolground violence, not just violence in general? Fine.

Homicides by Students on School Grounds During the School Day: 1992-93 to 2010 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
HomicidesInSchools.png
source
Yes that's a much better source. I'm making the mistake of thinking of the 90s as now. I was in school in the 90s when school violence sort of leveled off and started to decline apparently but im not so much concerned about general violence as wanton indiscriminate slaughter like we've seen recently at sandy hook. That kid was steeped in fps games and had a gun stroker for a mother and it created a perfect storm. It's a much better argument you've made but my position was that too much of that kind of influence does have the potential for really bad results. Whatever that Batman guys name was. He was obviously very intelligent. But something about the Dark Knight combined with personal failure made him snap completely and the uni psych dropped the ball on that one big time. So Dyson makes an excellent point about the schools bearing the responsibility. But they are still faced with having to clean up after the mess violent media (and tons of other factors no one can really place in order) made in those specific individual cases. Sorry for the stress was just trying to say I thought it can be bad to drown yourself in terror-oriented material.
Edited by electro2u - 10/20/14 at 1:09pm
post #217 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

About 200 posts ago I said "Would you rather have people believe killing others is quick and without suffering? If anything, this conveys just how terrible it is to take a life."

Is it possible that non-gory killing of only "evil people" desensitizes people to the idea of murder more than gore? Some kids might think you just point and click, then the person goes to sleep.

I love playing devil's advocate on this stuff.

You do have a point in that making killing seem easy is bad as well, but there's a difference between portraying the horrors of killing, and glorifying killing. Compare this game to one like Spec Ops, for example.

Both of those games might make a person sick, but while one makes you feel like a terrible human being for killing, the other seems to revel in the JOY of killing.

Of course, everyone can draw their own lines, but I find that distinction important.
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post #218 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBrogbo View Post


You are obviously EXTREMELY against censorship. So much so that you have completely simplified the argument into ridiculousness.

Violence is NOT violence. Hopping off your friend's head in New Super Mario Bros is not the same as hitting someone with a floppy dildo bat in Saints Row, which is not the same as looking into someone's eyes while they scream for their lives around a loaded gun barrel.

It is absolutely and completely absurd to think otherwise. Honestly, the scariest thing about this game is how vehemently people are fighting for it. I don't mind violence for the most part, but to actively be INTERESTED in it? There has got to be something psychologically wrong with that.

Wait...what? My argument is ridiculous because "violence isn't violence"? You're right, that's a much better argument wink.gif

I really don't even know how what you said is a counter-point to what I did. I was talking about adult games that are made for adults. These games aren't made for children and one of my points was this shouldn't be censored because you shouldn't have the right to tell another adult what kind of video game they play.

My second point being that if children do get their hands on this, it's the parents who should either make sure that doesn't happen (which isn't always feasible), or more importantly, teach them what's out there, talk to them about it. You seem to think that I'm all for children playing this, but really I'm not. I'm saying adults should be able to and parents should be responsible for preparing their kids for the real world.

If you start taking everything out of this world that might harm a child in some way, think of what we'll be left with...
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post #219 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

Source? Or are you now saying that seeing this stuff in video games is equivalent to seeing those things in real life? Which would again require a source.
The source for my statement was what I've heard from watching the first 48. Those cops know what's up and they say so.
And no there's a whole ocean of difference between witnessing murders irl and in a video game. Less of an ocean between movie and television violence and real violence. Video games are so obviously not real but they do give this sense of immersion and some very specific very disturbed people, particularly people that are suicidal anyway, cannot or will not transition back to reality and begin to construct a doomsday for themselves as happened at columbine and sandy hook. Batman was on a ton of opiates and I guess he just didn't want to go through with ending his own life when confronted by police he just started laughing.
post #220 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by electro2u View Post

Yes that's a much better source. I'm making the mistake of thinking of the 90s as now. I was in school in the 90s when school violence sort of leveled off and started to decline apparently but im not so much concerned about general violence as wanton indiscriminate slaughter like we've seen recently at sandy hook. That kid was steeped in fps games and had a gun stroker for a mother and it created a perfect storm. It's a much better argument you've made but my position was that too much of that kind of influence does have the potential for really bad results. Whatever that Batman guys name was. He was obviously very intelligent. But something about the Dark Knight combined with personal failure made him snap completely and the uni psych dropped the ball on that one big time. So Dyson makes an excellent point about the schools bearing the responsibility. But they are still faced with having to clean up after the mess violent media (and tons of other factors no one can really place in order) made in those specific individual cases. Sorry for the stress was just trying to say I thought it can be bad to drown yourself in terror-oriented material.

He also played non-violent games. Where is your evidence that games lead to murder? Just saying "well this murderer played video games" is not a causal link. The murderers also drank milkshakes. Do milkshakes lead to murder?

"But they are still faced with having to clean up after the mess violent media (and tons of other factors no one can really place in order) made in those specific individual cases."

Can you provide a source showing that violent media made any difference in those cases?
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