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*rant* Ya know I'm tired of stuff breaking - Page 4

post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

This has nothing to do with Linux, Linux as a kernel is fine. The problem is most distros suck, especially Arch. *energy shields activated*

Most users who try Linux sucks. * Exterminate drones activated *
post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I think one of the hardest things with using Linux is that you have to break the mindset that you actually NEED the latest version of everything.

While it used to be true that running unstable was almost mandatory to get your hardware etc working, it's much less a need today IMO.

I run Mint on my main system now, but just recently switched from Hackintosh. I find Mint to be an excellent system that is focussed on the end user experience more than ideology or bleeding edge users. I haven't had any real problems to speak of.

Maybe a more stable distro would ease your frustrations?

Mint being Ubuntu still isn't an old distribution. Having 6 month release cycles means aside from the bleeding edge ( Arch, Fedora, Etc ), it's about as new as you'll get. And they make getting even newer stuff quite easy. Whereas something like Debian has a 2 year release cycle and if you're machine is within 2 years new ( chipset, graphics, etc, etc ) you'll likely have issues with it and be forced into using Debian unstable or even the experimental branch ( a combination of which is what Ubuntu is loosely based on ).

And I really think we need to stop using "stable" in the sense that a lot of people tend to use it here. Since depending on the type of machine and environment you're aiming for, stable can mean many things.

I still rather have newer programs for the few programs I use. Newer much needed features in a lot of cases, bug fixes, etc.
post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Mint being Ubuntu still isn't an old distribution. Having 6 month release cycles means aside from the bleeding edge ( Arch, Fedora, Etc ), it's about as new as you'll get. And they make getting even newer stuff quite easy. Whereas something like Debian has a 2 year release cycle and if you're machine is within 2 years new ( chipset, graphics, etc, etc ) you'll likely have issues with it and be forced into using Debian unstable or even the experimental branch ( a combination of which is what Ubuntu is loosely based on ).

And I really think we need to stop using "stable" in the sense that a lot of people tend to use it here. Since depending on the type of machine and environment you're aiming for, stable can mean many things.

I still rather have newer programs for the few programs I use. Newer much needed features in a lot of cases, bug fixes, etc.

I mean stable like the stable release of Firefox for example versus the nightly or testing.

Nothing is totally "stable".

As far as stable distributions go, Mint has recently switched to using the LTS Ubuntu releases rather than the bi-annuals. That means the you will end up with older packages but also that more testing has been done so that a new xorg doesn't hose your system. ( at least in theory, we will see.... )

Or maybe a simpler way would be to say use a non rolling release distro.?
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post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I mean stable like the stable release of Firefox for example versus the nightly or testing.

Nothing is totally "stable".

As far as stable distributions go, Mint has recently switched to using the LTS Ubuntu releases rather than the bi-annuals. That means the you will end up with older packages but also that more testing has been done so that a new xorg doesn't hose your system. ( at least in theory, we will see.... )

Or maybe a simpler way would be to say use a non rolling release distro.?

Ubuntu LTS is still 1 year release cycles from each other LTS, and still offers some of the latest software ( and easily addable if you need something specific even newer ), not even remotely close to being old yet tongue.gif

And Mint has other plans to move away from Ubuntu as a whole, but that isn't going to happen for at least another 2 years.
post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Ubuntu LTS is still 1 year release cycles from each other LTS, and still offers some of the latest software ( and easily addable if you need something specific even newer ), not even remotely close to being old yet tongue.gif

And Mint has other plans to move away from Ubuntu as a whole, but that isn't going to happen for at least another 2 years.

The LTS releases are 2 years actually: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

As for Mint leaving Ubuntu behind: if they can do that and keep the same end user experience I'm good with it..
Edited by gsa700 - 10/22/14 at 10:07am
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post #36 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I think one of the hardest things with using Linux is that you have to break the mindset that you actually NEED the latest version of everything.

While it used to be true that running unstable was almost mandatory to get your hardware etc working, it's much less a need today IMO.

I run Mint on my main system now, but just recently switched from Hackintosh. I find Mint to be an excellent system that is focussed on the end user experience more than ideology or bleeding edge users. I haven't had any real problems to speak of.

Maybe a more stable distro would ease your frustrations?

I don't use Arch for the bleeding edge part I use it for the flexibility. I'm an American that lives in Europe my big issue with Mint/Ubuntu is philosophical it's practical, in every other distro I can edit resolv.conf give it some US DNS's to watch Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime with Mint/Ubuntu the resolv.conf isn't editable and is considered fluid, so you need to add those DNS settings to networkmanager. The problem comes in when network manager can find a faster connection with your routers IP it'll use that. which blocks my Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime. My next issue lies with PPA's the idea of a PPA is sound but it lacks two things the first is user feedback the second is the ability to compile from source. The best part of the AUR isn't that it has virtually everything it's the fact that I can edit my makepkg so when I compile crap from the AUR it's compiling for my machine. There is other practical benefits to Arch today I needed to convert some older video so I could edit it, well handbrake on my mac Pro at work didn't have the libraries I needed but my Z600 did so I brought the file home converted it, then dropped it into openshot and editied it put it on a usb stick took it back and took it back to work drop dead simple fourteen months ago I would have been at a complete stop because I was all Mac.

Hackintosh's can be awesome I've had three now but they can also be a MoFo. when it comes to updates and you're still locked into the Apple eco-system. It's taken a long time but I've been able to learn and replace everything I do with my Mac's at home on my Linux boxes. That learning has not only taken me back in time to when I was a kid but removed perceived barriers going into the future.

I don't like the fact that my install broke I don't like the fact that it requires much fixing but in the end my free time is free and the learning experience will only make things easier going forward.
 
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post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I don't use Arch for the bleeding edge part I use it for the flexibility. I'm an American that lives in Europe my big issue with Mint/Ubuntu is philosophical it's practical, in every other distro I can edit resolv.conf give it some US DNS's to watch Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime with Mint/Ubuntu the resolv.conf isn't editable and is considered fluid, so you need to add those DNS settings to networkmanager. The problem comes in when network manager can find a faster connection with your routers IP it'll use that. which blocks my Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime. My next issue lies with PPA's the idea of a PPA is sound but it lacks two things the first is user feedback the second is the ability to compile from source. The best part of the AUR isn't that it has virtually everything it's the fact that I can edit my makepkg so when I compile crap from the AUR it's compiling for my machine. There is other practical benefits to Arch today I needed to convert some older video so I could edit it, well handbrake on my mac Pro at work didn't have the libraries I needed but my Z600 did so I brought the file home converted it, then dropped it into openshot and editied it put it on a usb stick took it back and took it back to work drop dead simple fourteen months ago I would have been at a complete stop because I was all Mac.

Hackintosh's can be awesome I've had three now but they can also be a MoFo. when it comes to updates and you're still locked into the Apple eco-system. It's taken a long time but I've been able to learn and replace everything I do with my Mac's at home on my Linux boxes. That learning has not only taken me back in time to when I was a kid but removed perceived barriers going into the future.

I don't like the fact that my install broke I don't like the fact that it requires much fixing but in the end my free time is free and the learning experience will only make things easier going forward.

I'm right there with you as far as the Mac to Linux switch. I am better off not being locked into Mac formats: ie I teach classes at our local technical collage and all my coursework was written in Pages. That's kind of a pain now to say the least....

But I can get around that and I'm still happier in the end.

I didn't mean that you should use Mint necessarily, just that maybe a non-rolling release distribution might free you from some of the rough edges of Arch. I've not used Arch myself, but I ran Gentoo for years so I can relate.
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post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I didn't mean that you should use Mint necessarily, just that maybe a non-rolling release distribution might free you from some of the rough edges of Arch. I've not used Arch myself, but I ran Gentoo for years so I can relate.

Being rolling release isn't inherently the problem ( nor bleeding edge for that matter ).

I was playing around with Debian Stable a few months back and within the course of a week, it had broken more times on me than Arch has in 6 years. Once in Arch, by itself, the rest were of my fiddling, and several breakages each day on Debian. And after 2 weeks of that mess, I ended up going back to Arch. Then I decided to go try a few other distributions, and while they went smoother, I still had more problems than I've had with Arch in such a short time.
post #39 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I don't use Arch for the bleeding edge part I use it for the flexibility. I'm an American that lives in Europe my big issue with Mint/Ubuntu is philosophical it's practical, in every other distro I can edit resolv.conf give it some US DNS's to watch Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime with Mint/Ubuntu the resolv.conf isn't editable and is considered fluid, so you need to add those DNS settings to networkmanager. The problem comes in when network manager can find a faster connection with your routers IP it'll use that. which blocks my Netflix/Hulu/AmazonPrime. My next issue lies with PPA's the idea of a PPA is sound but it lacks two things the first is user feedback the second is the ability to compile from source. The best part of the AUR isn't that it has virtually everything it's the fact that I can edit my makepkg so when I compile crap from the AUR it's compiling for my machine. There is other practical benefits to Arch today I needed to convert some older video so I could edit it, well handbrake on my mac Pro at work didn't have the libraries I needed but my Z600 did so I brought the file home converted it, then dropped it into openshot and editied it put it on a usb stick took it back and took it back to work drop dead simple fourteen months ago I would have been at a complete stop because I was all Mac.

Hackintosh's can be awesome I've had three now but they can also be a MoFo. when it comes to updates and you're still locked into the Apple eco-system. It's taken a long time but I've been able to learn and replace everything I do with my Mac's at home on my Linux boxes. That learning has not only taken me back in time to when I was a kid but removed perceived barriers going into the future.

I don't like the fact that my install broke I don't like the fact that it requires much fixing but in the end my free time is free and the learning experience will only make things easier going forward.

I'm right there with you as far as the Mac to Linux switch. I am better off not being locked into Mac formats: ie I teach classes at our local technical collage and all my coursework was written in Pages. That's kind of a pain now to say the least....

But I can get around that and I'm still happier in the end.

I didn't mean that you should use Mint necessarily, just that maybe a non-rolling release distribution might free you from some of the rough edges of Arch. I've not used Arch myself, but I ran Gentoo for years so I can relate.

I've been an Apple user virtually since there has been Apple computers until last year I'm trying to overcome 28 years of the Apple way. I did the Gentoo thing a couple last month while I do like it emerging on my C2D laptop got old really fast. I started to use Gentoo on my new desktop but in the end I succumbed to the easy of Arch but built everything that wasn't core from source and maybe that's why it didn't break but my laptop did...dunno....gonna find out though
 
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post #40 of 53
Many good points before this .... but the below quote thrusts the sword to the hilt. So you Windows and Mac devotees take note. You're a better driver if you at least know how (and when) to change your own oil.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyChris View Post

I don't like the fact that my install broke I don't like the fact that it requires much fixing but in the end my free time is free and the learning experience will only make things easier going forward.

Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die.
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