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[Kit] Samsung does not expect computer memory prices to drop next year - Page 5

post #41 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Not just that.... there's actually nothing inherently wrong to reduce production if those costs are outweighing benefits.

What would be wrong is if the oligopoly all made an agreement to cut production together to solely drive up profits (collusion).

that's never ever happened before.

off topic, i was born yesterday.
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post #42 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popple View Post

Who gets to decide how much benefit there should be? How explicit does this "agreement" have to be?
That was the gist of the article. Am I to misrepresent the writer and cherry pick for what you deem is fair?

For evidence of collusion, there has to be proof of the leaders meeting and deciding to fix prices at that level. All of them happening to sell at similar price levels is not evidence of collusion.

Also, who decides how much benefit there would be would be the laws of supply and demand.

As for fair, the author's spin on the matter is hardly fair.
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post #43 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

For evidence of collusion, there has to be proof of the leaders meeting and deciding to fix prices at that level. All of them happening to sell at similar price levels is not evidence of collusion.
You can always set the bar for this "proof" high enough to dismiss any glaring trend.
Quote:
Also, who decides how much benefit there would be would be the laws of supply and demand.
The "supply" can be arbitrarily suppressed by the manufacturers themselves.
Quote:
As for fair, the author's spin on the matter is hardly fair.
Exactly, I'm presenting the article from KitGuru, not what you believe.
post #44 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popple View Post

You can always set the bar for this "proof" high enough to dismiss any glaring trend.
The "supply" can be arbitrarily suppressed by the manufacturers themselves.
Exactly, I'm presenting the article from KitGuru, not what you believe.

Again, it's not about setting the bar high or low. You need an explicit agreement, with all players actively agreeing to it. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. The only reason people are mad about it was because of 4 months of very low prices. And in that time, we saw OCZ go out of the memory business because of "low profitability," and who knows how many others.

What about Dell and HP keeping their 1600p 30" IPS monitors at 1k for years?
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post #45 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Again, it's not about setting the bar high or low. You need an explicit agreement, with all players actively agreeing to it. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
I don't even know what way you are talking about, and what realization of this "explicit agreement" you are expecting. I was saying that demanding some secretly signed document of collusion as proof is an impossibly high standard and not the way it is.
Quote:
And in that time, we saw OCZ go out of the memory business because of "low profitability," and who knows how many others.
This is about the memory prices today, and how it is going to stay up for more than another year.
Quote:
What about Dell and HP keeping their 1600p 30" IPS monitors at 1k for years?
Memory prices have climbed up inordinately, and this is not because of a limitation of manufacturing technology.
post #46 of 74







I don't know about you, but this selection, of just a few possible choices, suggests a collusion to say, "lets set our prices for 16gb as $160ish for everyone".
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post #47 of 74
All I wanna say about news and attitudes : if a certain article is to be regarded as "news", the writer should try to keep all his personal emotions and opinions away from the entire article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchieGriffs View Post

Buy used? Should last you until 2017.
If your sig rig is your current rig, I don't see it being nearly as demanding especially if you aren't playing the latest games, but even then I agree, we should be perfectly fine with 8GB. My concern is having lower clocked RAM, not necessarily the amount of RAM, but that's my fault for cheaping out on RAM 2 years ago when I didn't care for a decent gaming rig.

Didn't remember I need to mention some side info

I'm from Asia, and over here, the second hand market and first hand old-gen hardware are almost non-existent. In the US, there is 2nd hand market and there is BRAND NEW old-gen hardware available, and even girls would know to search in amazon or ebay. Here, the only easy accessible option is to buy everything new in the stores, and its always the most updated series of things, especially in the GPU department. Want a GTX 580? Sorry man it sold out 2 years ago, but here's your 760!

Second hand market is worse because it's way too small. You do not go to the web site, search for your desired model and find.... 32 results. Instead, you go to the section of the hardware you want and stare at the 32 items TOTAL that are available and see if there's anything catching your eyeballs.

/rant
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post #48 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchieGriffs View Post

Except car companies are already doing something worse, they're hiding their unused stock and pretending like they're still selling decent numbers so that they can charge the same prices despite diminishing demand. It'd be like if there was warehouses full of RAM sticks waiting to be sold and a video releases of some guy haphazardly swimming through them all and the prices are what they are today. So basically that analogy not only fits, but it's also even worse.

Source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-16/where-worlds-unsold-cars-go-die

Come the hell on.

One quick Google search totally shows your article you linked is full of it - which I didn't need Google to tell me, having formerly worked in auto sales.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/unsoldcars.asp

Simply using a Google image drag search of the photos, supposedly taken in 2014, shows them being published in very specific articles YEARS ago.

EDIT:

As for RAM pricing collusion, yup, has been going on for awhile. Samsung is building a new factory, which might impact pricing in a few years, but that doesn't change the fact that they are all doing it now. RAM doesn't suddenly almost double in cost for no reason like it did.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 10/21/14 at 11:06am
    
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post #49 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popple View Post

I don't even know what way you are talking about, and what realization of this "explicit agreement" you are expecting. I was saying that demanding some secretly signed document of collusion as proof is an impossibly high standard and not the way it is.
This is about the memory prices today, and how it is going to stay up for more than another year.
Memory prices have climbed up inordinately, and this is not because of a limitation of manufacturing technology.

There are other ways of identifying collusion.... Burden of proof is on us to prove it. You can do some analysis on price movement, call around, track itineraries, etc.

Higher memory prices alone are not proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen00 View Post

I don't know about you, but this selection, of just a few possible choices, suggests a collusion to say, "lets set our prices for 16gb as $160ish for everyone".

Not really....

First, you have to look at commodity prices. Not the price after OEM, distributors, and retail take cuts... there's too much noise otherwise.
Then, you have to track the values MUCH more closely. Some of those graphs have very little correlation even.... just the begin and end are similar.

Again... increase prices does not equate to collusion.

(I personally believe there probably is some collusion. However, I can't prove it and know that some charts from retailers surely proves nothing at all.)
Edited by DuckieHo - 10/21/14 at 11:47am
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post #50 of 74
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Burden of proof is on us to prove it.
You seem to lay the same level of burden as in a court of law, this is an Internet discussion board. You also switch terms like "identify" and "prove" freely, and expect no one to raise a voice unless they have some unspecified thing that qualifies as this proof. Since my post was a response to Tsumi's demand for evidence of an explicit agreement, we have yet another idea of what is expected of those who dare criticize the ram manufacturers.
Quote:
You can do some analysis on price movement, call around, track itineraries, etc.
I thought the price trends have been implicitly acknowledged for months. For the other two you are expecting people to have the time and connections that are completely unwarranted for a news article, much less an internet thread on that article.
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