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post #271 of 362
If you disagree with someone that's fine

Splitting hairs for the sake of starting fights and accusing people you disagree with of trolling simply because you disagree is not fine

Also, Cleaned
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post #272 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undervolter View Post

If you ask me, it would be better if AMD completely ditched the stock cooler in the retail package. But i guess they put it for inexperienced users who want something that easily latches on the motherboard's bracket.
They can probably source those for a few bucks each from some Chinese OEM, and it probably prevents a few RMA's from people who didn't install their HSF properly and fried an expensive CPU.

Funny thing is that I never used the stock cooler that came with my FX-8350 to cool the 8350, but it's being used right now on the A10-6800K I'm running now. It can even keep it cool up to about 4.5 GHz under load. The FX-8350 stock cooler is way better than the weak thing that they ship with boxed APU's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

I personally use an AMD CPU and it performs just fine. The problem with AMD now is that they're so far behind in the CPU game, that I literally can't think of any situation where i'd recommend an FX CPU over an opposing Intel CPU. I still think their APU's are a gift from heaven.
There's no reason to recommend someone to build an AM3+ rig from scratch anymore. I still am willing to recommend upgrades from Bulldozers or 4/6-core Piledriver to an 83x0, but if you're starting new, AM3+ is a terrible deal because of the outdated platform and lack of any upgrade path.

However, a 760K/860K on an A88X motherboard is a different story. That gives you a quad-core CPU for about $75-90, and an upgrade path to Carrizo early next year. You can't get any other four-thread CPU for anything close to that price. Intel's cheapest i3 processors are about $120.
     
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post #273 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilWrir View Post

If you disagree with someone that's fine

Splitting hairs for the sake of starting fights and accusing people you disagree with of trolling simply because you disagree is not fine

Also, Cleaned

the title itself was bound to start a war biggrin.gif
post #274 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Smith1984 View Post

AMD is not just mass producing FX 8 cores now, they are like MEGA mass producing those damn things.
I mean seriously, "bulk" packaging??? HAHAHA
I'd like to see a $99 special on the 8320-E, and then I'd actually consider getting one....

Maybe if the 95** series was around $160 I'd get one of those and have a great shot at 5GHz....
The Vishera at 5GHz with 8 threads is a very well performing CPU. Anyone denying that is crazy....

It's just not as strong as an 8 thread intel at 4GHz that costs twice as much... what is the big surprise there??? tongue.gif

AMD has always handled Asian market different. You notice that ships from South Korea. When I went to Japan 2 years ago it was right before 8300 was announced. People were all excited for 95w 4m/8c chips here but they were OEM only in the states. In Akihabara I saw them all over the place. In fact you'd even see big banners and stuff for AMD. Some stores even had entire floors dedicated to AMD parts.

It is pretty funny how in Asia, specially China (I did visit a big electronics store that had computer stuff too) they don't care about packaging at all. I went to the store in China and bought some generic HDMI cable that was 6 feet for like $2USD. The guy just pulled it out of a drawer and it was in some cheap plastic bag.

Korea is really huge into PC gaming. I'd imagine that something like FX 8300 in basic packaging like that sells like crazy over there.
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post #275 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

They can probably source those for a few bucks each from some Chinese OEM, and it probably prevents a few RMA's from people who didn't install their HSF properly and fried an expensive CPU.

Funny thing is that I never used the stock cooler that came with my FX-8350 to cool the 8350, but it's being used right now on the A10-6800K I'm running now. It can even keep it cool up to about 4.5 GHz under load. The FX-8350 stock cooler is way better than the weak thing that they ship with boxed APU's.
There's no reason to recommend someone to build an AM3+ rig from scratch anymore. I still am willing to recommend upgrades from Bulldozers or 4/6-core Piledriver to an 83x0, but if you're starting new, AM3+ is a terrible deal because of the outdated platform and lack of any upgrade path.

Well, the stock AMD cooler, is made by Cooler Master after all, so it's not like the worst of the worst. But on her part of course, Cooler Master has a conflict of interest. CM has its own retail coolers for sale. So if it was to make for AMD a sensational cooler, her low end models would automatically become obsolete and nobody would buy them... For APUs, i can believe the 8-core cooler is usable, after all, it does come with heatpipes and as long as the cooler doesn't go full speed, it should't be too much annoying, although i have a general allergy to fans<92mm, because there is no way to make them quiet enough for my taste. I haven't seen the cooler that comes with APUs, but given the TDP, it's probably the tiny toy that they ship with the 6300... Which is if i remember correctly, it's worse than the stock cooler of my Athlon II x4 640...

I agree with you for gamers and such, but otherwise, for people who intend to use heavy multithreaded applications and don't mind changing completely platform some years down the road, the 8320/8320e are still very good bang for buck. Yeah, you don't have an upgrade path. But if you intend to stay say 4-5 years on that, by that time, no current platform will have upgrade path. So... AM3+ is still good but for NON gamers. It's good for people who want a certain job done and aren't chasing fps or seconds. I have a friend to which i gave an Athlon II x2. Now i offer him (for free) my 1090T and he is thinking about it, he will decide next summer, because "as it is now runs perfectly fine for me, why risk ruining it"... And people like him actually do exist out there. It's just that he does nothing "heavy" with his computer.
Edited by Undervolter - 10/30/14 at 9:33am
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post #276 of 362
double post, sorry.
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post #277 of 362
Here's this debate in a nutshell:

People who say AMD is more cost effective, or this or that in AMD's favor.....are working from past truths that ended as far back as 2009, and they're foolishly applying those conceptions to the present.


In every aspect, AMD loses big time, and generally comes out costing more for less performance too.



Example: Socket 1150 MB + i5 CPU will cost less initially, and even less in the long run, while delivering more performance than AMD's top stock chips. And AM3+ motherboard with Sata 3 that is suitable for an 8x or above, or suitable for overclocking, is in the $80-$100 territory minimum. Meanwhile, for as low as $40 you can get a socket 1150 with sata3. And that's not even taking into account the horrible longevity of AM3+ motherboards, and the fact that the socket is dead, making it a bad investment for upgrades.

For an 8350, decent motherboard, and cheap cooling solution, you're going to pay around at least $300 in total. Meanwhile you can get Intels best or second best i5, and come out paying at least $20 less...or even less.....and get more performance, energy efficiency, higher overclocking, etc...and most importantly, piece of mind that your motherboard probably won't die on you. When all of these AM3+ motherboards start disappearing from stock, all of these people with 8x motherboards are going to find themselves sol.

Throw overclocking into the equation, and you're going to spend more on that for AMD too....or at the very least get a lot less out of the same cooling solution.

AMD really dropped the ball on its motherboard variety, pricing and features. That's just the final nail in the coffin after all the other issues.
Edited by AMDATI - 10/30/14 at 10:26pm
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post #278 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

Here's this debate in a nutshell:

People who say AMD is more cost effective, or this or that in AMD's favor.....are working from past truths that ended as far back as 2009, and they're foolishly applying those conceptions to the present.


In every aspect, AMD loses big time, and generally comes out costing more for less performance too.



Example: Socket 1150 MB + i5 CPU will cost less initially, and even less in the long run, while delivering more performance than AMD's top stock chips. And AM3+ motherboard with Sata 3 that is suitable for an 8x or above, or suitable for overclocking, is in the $80-$100 territory minimum. Meanwhile, for as low as $40 you can get a socket 1150 with sata3. And that's not even taking into account the horrible longevity of AM3+ motherboards, and the fact that the socket is dead, making it a bad investment for upgrades.

For an 8350, decent motherboard, and cheap cooling solution, you're going to pay around at least $300 in total. Meanwhile you can get Intels best or second best i5, and come out paying at least $20 less...or even less.....and get more performance, energy efficiency, higher overclocking, etc...and most importantly, piece of mind that your motherboard probably won't die on you. When all of these AM3+ motherboards start disappearing from stock, all of these people with 8x motherboards are going to find themselves sol.

Throw overclocking into the equation, and you're going to spend more on that for AMD too....or at the very least get a lot less out of the same cooling solution.

AMD really dropped the ball on its motherboard variety, pricing and features. That's just the final nail in the coffin after all the other issues.

Not even remotely true, an AMD 860K prices in at roughly 80 dollars (depending on the store) and is unlocked and is comparable almost exactly in performance to a i5-4430 (189.99) which is a locked processor. Your right in the sense that AMD's lineup is wacky and leads to alot of dead ends in the performance segment. But when it comes to the budget segment, intel has effectively priced themselves out of this market. No one building a "budget pc" wants to pay 200 dollars for the processor alone. It is exactly this kind of mentality that has people thinking that Intel is that far ahead of the game, when really the only thing they are ahead on is the enthusiast market, where buying $300 dollar or more processors is all about performance, not about performance per dollar.
Edited by Spawne32 - 10/30/14 at 10:44pm
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post #279 of 362
To clarify on that point a little more, AMD is hurting in everything above $200 dollars. But when you look at everything under $200 dollars, that is where AMD is actually competing. Take a look at passmark's website for instance on their price vs performance charts. You will notice that almost everything, discounting the supply of old processors it still shows, is an AMD processor. This argument though is inherently toxic to this sub-forum. This is an ongoing debate for as long as I can remember, when intel is doing great, everyone hates on AMD, and when AMD is doing great, everyone hates on intel. I can honestly say that I think everyone on this forum is perfectly content with what they have from AMD without the constant reminder that it doesnt perform as well as a processor twice the cost. lol
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post #280 of 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

And that's not even taking into account the horrible longevity of AM3+ motherboards
There is no longevity problem with AM3+ motherboards if you buy ones that can properly support the CPU's that are installed on them. People who overclocked an FX-8350 on cheap MSI 4+1 motherboards and got a fireworks display for their trouble got exactly what was coming to them.

I've seen more bad Intel motherboards in the last five years than bad AMD motherboards of any kind. You can say that's only because I know what AMD motherboards to build with, so I don't see bad ones, but anyone who builds their own system should know to do their homework, regardless of whether they intend to use Intel or AMD.

I don't recommend new AM3+ builds anymore, but not because of motherboard quality. Only because it's basically abandoned, has no upgrade path, and the fact that there are better alternatives on the market for almost any type of workloads.
     
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