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[TR/CT] Apple & Android Fans Begin Boycotts After US Retailers Block Apple Pay - Page 2

post #11 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Ugh. Screw them. Like I said, they're just going to alienate customers.

Indeed
Quote:
I hope the boycott gains strong ground.

I don't. I hope very strongly that Apple Pay does not gain ground and is eventually out-competed by open alternatives. I would like for all retailers to accept NFC-initiated payments. I do NOT want that ability to be locked to a specific vendor's specific model of phone. Even if it's a popular phone, that locks out the rest of the market.

An open alternative that anyone is free to adopt would be WAY better. That way Android, iOS, and Windows Phone users would all be free to take advantage of it. NFC itself is designed to promote interoperability between different vendors. By passing a proprietary protocol (Apple Pay) over a relatively open specification, you completely defeat the purpose of the open standard in the first place.

I should add, Apple and the retailers are free to work out whatever arrangements they feel like for accepting payments. If tomorrow, Wal-Mart required that you have an iPhone to purchase things there and discontinued all other payment methods, they are FREE to do so. However, I'd never shop there because I don't have and do not plan to get an iPhone.
Edited by coachmark2 - 10/27/14 at 8:04am
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post #12 of 89
LOL good luck boycotting Wal-Mart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post


I don't. I hope very strongly that Apple Pay does not gain ground and is eventually out-competed by open alternatives. I would like for all retailers to accept NFC-initiated payments. I do NOT want that ability to be locked to a specific vendor's specific model of phone. Even if it's a popular phone, that locks out the rest of the market.

An open alternative that anyone is free to adopt would be WAY better. That way Android, iOS, and Windows Phone users would all be free to take advantage of it.


I agree, I think a lot of people don't understand that if Apple gains traction here that their payment would be the only form of NFC payment accepted. Once apple has you by the balls they don't let go. Ask the music industry or the BOOK industry.
 
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post #13 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Ugh. Screw them. Like I said, they're just going to alienate customers.

Indeed
Quote:
I hope the boycott gains strong ground.

I don't. I hope very strongly that Apple Pay does not gain ground and is eventually out-competed by open alternatives. I would like for all retailers to accept NFC-initiated payments. I do NOT want that ability to be locked to a specific vendor's specific model of phone. Even if it's a popular phone, that locks out the rest of the market.

An open alternative that anyone is free to adopt would be WAY better. That way Android, iOS, and Windows Phone users would all be free to take advantage of it.

Oh no, I definitely wasn't implying that Apple Pay should be a thing. Apple's fee is like a certain percentage of the purchase price? While I think that the fee is deducted from the merchant's end (not an additional charge for the customer), I definitely don't agree with it. We should just have the generic NFC standard that has been around (are there licensing fees for that?). What I do side with the boycott on is that retailers shouldn't have a proprietary payment method that they fully control. They have store credit cards for that.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 10/27/14 at 8:06am
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post #14 of 89
I like competition actually. I don't see anything wrong with this. Apple expected a free pass, it's not that easy to make billions of dollars. They have to use their head and their stockpiled money to make a system that people will trust and WANT instead of being forced to use due to it being the only thing there as they had a monopoly on it.
post #15 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by assaulth3ro911 View Post

I like competition actually. I don't see anything wrong with this. Apple expected a free pass, it's not that easy to make billions of dollars. They have to use their head and their stockpiled money to make a system that people will trust and WANT instead of being forced to use due to it being the only thing there as they had a monopoly on it.

Agreed. Let Apple push their standard and let the retailers negotiate back. It's somewhat silly to my personal views that people are protesting by not shopping at a place that doesn't carry their particularly-preferred payment method, but that's their business.

This is what it looks like when free markets work. Companies that make bad decisions are punished and those who make good ones are rewarded. It will be interesting see which side/standard wins out on this one.

As an aside, I think the proprietary Apple Pay, even if it does gain some entrenchment, will eventually be out-competed by existing or yet-to-exist open NFC-based payment methods. However, that will take time and I will not enjoy that time. redface.gif
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post #16 of 89
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Originally Posted by frickfrock999 View Post

The billion dollar corporations or the people? thinking.gif

As if Apple, Samsung, and Google AREN'T "billion dollar companies" themselves? rolleyes.gif
post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

True. Retailers can choose which methods of payment they would like to accept.

Exactly. Our company takes credit cards and does online payments. There are a ton of overhead costs and fees involved with every type of payment method (including cash). Just because Apple thinks people should use this, doesn't mean our company will rush out and pay x thousands of dollars for scanners, y dollars a month even if we don't take a single payment, and z percentage of sale as the payment.

It's expensive enough to pay $400 a machine for a single reader, a monthly fee, and anywhere from 1.75 to 3.25% just to take a credit card. Now I have to go our and get a new monthly fee and a bunch of new readers?

Pass.
post #18 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

Agreed. Let Apple push their standard and let the retailers negotiate back. It's somewhat silly to my personal views that people are protesting by not shopping at a place that doesn't carry their particularly-preferred payment method, but that's their business.

This is what it looks like when free markets work. Companies that make bad decisions are punished and those who make good ones are rewarded. It will be interesting see which side/standard wins out on this one.

As an aside, I think the proprietary Apple Pay, even if it does gain some entrenchment, will eventually be out-competed by existing or yet-to-exist open NFC-based payment methods. However, that will take time and I will not enjoy that time. redface.gif


I think even an open NFC payment system is going to have a long road to acceptance by retailers. They are in bed with the CC companies and you know the CC companies and BANKS do not want to lose their 2% transaction fees. Apple and Google might be multi billion dollar companies but they are in the big leagues in the finance world and I don't think they are quite prepared to deal with the CC companies and banks. You want to talk about monopolies and oligopolies with no competition Apple and Google? Welcome to the finance industry where oligopoly is the name of the game and you are 200 years behind the curve. These guys play for keeps and they have no problems destroying entire industries to get what they want. This fight could get ugly and not fun for consumers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

Exactly. Our company takes credit cards and does online payments. There are a ton of overhead costs and fees involved with every type of payment method (including cash). Just because Apple thinks people should use this, doesn't mean our company will rush out and pay x thousands of dollars for scanners, y dollars a month even if we don't take a single payment, and z percentage of sale as the payment.

It's expensive enough to pay $400 a machine for a single reader, a monthly fee, and anywhere from 1.75 to 3.25% just to take a credit card. Now I have to go our and get a new monthly fee and a bunch of new readers?

Pass.

Pretty much
 
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post #19 of 89
Open NFC payment, or no NFC payment.

Why is this suddenly a problem just because Apple is involved. Google has been dealing with retailers not accepting NFC (Google Wallet) for a long time. Thats why they created the Google wallet card.
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post #20 of 89
We don't know the whole story : i.e. is it just ApplePay vs. BBpay or Walmartpay, or does Apple really want to keep a % bigger than Visa or MasterCard or BBpay and the such could ever ask for = taking bigger part of the profits of these corporations away?

History with iTunes, eBooks etc would of course advocate in favor of the big retailers, and not "righteous" Apple.

Remember, unlike Apple who managed to make it work with insane profit margins, most retailers and especially retailers like WalMart, base their business model on small margin, very high volume sales.
Their ROI is often in the single % digits. If ApplePay requires 1-2% more per transaction than other credit systems, that's 10-20% off the profit of the company. Even if it is .1%, that is 1% of WalMart's profit we are talking about. This is BIIIIIG.

So before we jump on the "Red or Blue" bandwagon, we better get a grip on the reality of the matter. Yes, it is all about money, and might be about convenience, but much like WalMart and now Amazon and other big stores built their royal following after indirectly sabotaging the retail market landscape & destroying small businesses even if it meant lack of profits for a few years (no, some naysayers will say, the market needed to adapt - or die), Apple (& Amazon) made lots of their money buy parasitizing the music and movie industry -> of course with small publishers and non super-star artists being the first to bite the dust - or at least say buy to even those little royalties they had.

Now these ruthless public giants turn on each other, going after bigger chunks of change to please their stockholders, but we keep cheering, cause we think it makes no difference for us & we get to pick which "hero" shark gets to work his way to our pockets. How refreshing. rolleyes.gif
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