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[pcper]PS4 and Xbox One Already Hitting a Performance Wall

69K views 797 replies 202 participants last post by  Orangey 
#1 ·
Quote:
An email into the Giantbomb.com weekly podcast from an anonymous (but seemingly reliable) developer on the Unity team raised interesting material. In this email, despite addressing other issues on the value of pixel count and the stunning visuals of the game, the developer asserted that we may have already peaked on the graphical compute capability of these two new gaming consoles. Here is a portion of the information:

The PS4 couldn't do 1080p 30fps for our game, whatever people, or Sony and Microsoft say. ...With all the concessions from Microsoft, backing out of CPU reservations not once, but twice, you're looking at about a 1-2 FPS difference between the two consoles.

What's hard is not getting the game to render but getting everything else in the game at the same level of performance we designed from the start for the graphics. By the amount of content and NPCs in the game, from someone who witnessed a lot of optimizations for games from Ubisoft in the past, this is crazily optimized for such a young generation of consoles. This is really about to define the next-generation unlike any other game beforehand.

We are bound from the CPU because of AI. Around 50% of the CPU is used for the pre-packaged rendering parts..


source
 
#3 ·
So... devs are finally saying what the tech nerds were saying BEFORE the console was released? Huh... go figure...
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#4 ·
I knew this was coming, but you can't really blame the console manufacturers, they really need to profit from these consoles early on to recoup their losses throughout the gen and actually make money.

That said, these consoles haven't come close to hitting their strides. All it will take is some out of the box developer to show them they are wrong, and new advancements will be made.
 
#5 ·
Just one word. Ubisoft.
 
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#7 ·
What I fail to understand is, why make the PS4 cost ~$370 to make instead of $470(and sell at the usual $499)

topping up $100 into APU alone could still make a significant diff in performance.
 
#10 ·
So ubisoft is claiming that they fully utilized all of the weak jaguar cores and the gpu? I highly doubt it. I wonder if valve will try something to prove them wrong in their new upcoming games, whenever that may be.
 
#11 ·
this is just silly. some games released for ps4 have been 1080p vs 720p on xb1. not to mention that it is too early to be making broad statements about optimization. but still just because they failed to optimize doesn't mean others can't/won't. the differences in already released games between ps4 vs xb1 speak for themselves. even if zero progress occurs in optimization, the ps4 is clearly substantially more powerful way beyond 1-2 fps. looks like an ms hit piece (anonymous dev payed by ms).

actually, it's probably just ubisoft making amends to ms for their earlier honesty on the parity clause
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post

What I fail to understand is, why make the PS4 cost ~$370 to make instead of $470(and sell at the usual $499)

topping up $100 into APU alone could still make a significant diff in performance.
I agree. If this started at PS3 prices with a bump up in the hardware specs, it would still sell very well and we would actually have 1080P games.
I was playing The Evil Within on PS4 the other day and it dips below 30fps in some open areas. Not a good experience at all, scared to see how it performs on the Xbone
 
#14 ·
As a former console gamer, I'm really happy I went with PC this gen. I'll re-evaluate again when the Xbox Two is released
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#15 ·
At launch there was already Ryse and Killzone Shadowfall. There was Forza 5 and NBA 2k14. Then Infamous Second Son. Those launch/early games looked significantly better than previous gen games. The launch games back with the 360/PS3 did not nearly impress me back then like the PS4 have Xbox One have. There probably will be improvements but the bar was set high right out the gate compared to last gen. People like to show comparisons like Perfect Dark Zero compared to Halo 4. I'm not so confident the growth from Killzone Shadow Fall will be as dramatic.

It's whatever though. I have a PC. I'll buy a new $250+ graphics card next winter to be my graphics meal. Maybe even buy an Oculus Rift if the consumer version is out. I'm not going to place my desire to be wowed from console graphics. Give me Gran Turismo, those Naughty Dog adventure games, and some JRPGs and we're good.
 
#18 ·
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Originally Posted by KingGreasy View Post

At launch there was already Ryse and Killzone Shadowfall. There was Forza 5 and NBA 2k14. Then Infamous Second Son. Those launch/early games looked significantly better than previous gen games. The launch games back with the 360/PS3 did not nearly impress me back then like the PS4 have Xbox One have. There probably will be improvements but the bar was set high right out the gate compared to last gen. People like to show comparisons like Perfect Dark Zero compared to Halo 4. I'm not so confident the growth from Killzone Shadow Fall will be as dramatic.
True. People should switch their PS3 back on and have a look at the huge leap to PC level graphics, albeit PC level graphics at 900p/30fps. Previously they were firmly rooted in console land and mostly plagued by hideous textures, pop ins, and no AA at 680p , 27 - 30fps.

Did They just peaked too soon ?.. or did they leave it too long between generations and mobile phones started to look crisper with their high PPI and PC gamers were showing off much better graphics for years before they released this gen? i,e had peoples expectations out of the gate been as high or higher than this new console generation can actually give..

by the middle to end of next year 4k gaming is going to start being more plausible on PC, and UHD & WUDH 1440p 21:9 already is the new PC standard.
 
#20 ·
Takes years to develop a new console. I think Sony said it took 5 years for the PS4 this time? Final specs are locked way before release. They cannot go back and forth all the time. People for get they have to build the whole thing for a certain price. Article mentions a GTX 760 for 1080p smooth game play. Sure that is nice and a benefit for PC. Consoles cannot do that. You cant upgrade and they are not going to put in a $200 gpu alone. You are dreaming. They have the rest to build. The leap is just not there this time. Xbox to 360 or PS2 to PS3. Now those were leaps. In specs alone. These new consoles are between last gen and next. They are far from next gen imo. It seems like now they are just getting to a point where they can push all games now in actual HD. 720p, 900p, 1080p. Console specs was leaked and we knew what was going to happen. I don't see a long span this time. 3-4 years max maybe this time?
 
#21 ·
Yeah, and Epic said Gears of War 1 maxed out the 360 back in 2006. Like every single previous gen ever, the developers will learn how to optimize better and games will look better as the years go by.
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#22 ·
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we are talking about very basic x86 cores and traditional GPU hardware that ALL software developers are intimately familiar with
You mean the hardware they have been making a terrible port to in the past?
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Remember, there is almost no "porting" going on here: the Xbox One and Playstation 4 share the same architecture as the PC now.
And now they need to recode rebuild the engine... but why would they? They are going to get a small fortune in sales anyway.
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post

Yeah, and Epic said Gears of War 1 maxed out the 360 back in 2006. Like every single previous gen ever, the developers will learn how to optimize better and games will look better as the years go by.
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I'll believe that the consoles are maxed when other developers come out and say it. For now, I'm going to remember the difference between Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm with you there.
 
#24 ·
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Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

I still fail to see where all this "untapped potential" is going to come from. There's no getting away from the Xbone having a slow 7770 for the GPU and certainly less CPU performance than a 2500k.
Its insulting to even put or mention a 2500k. It is not even on the same level or even remotely close. 2500k destroys in every single way.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

I still fail to see where all this "untapped potential" is going to come from. There's no getting away from the Xbone having a slow 7770 for the GPU and certainly less CPU performance than a 2500k.
If you read infamous dev notes about ps4 they said that they hit a wall because they are unexperienced and also they didint use all the features because they didint want to risk with the developing
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by GameBoy View Post

Yeah, and Epic said Gears of War 1 maxed out the 360 back in 2006. Like every single previous gen ever, the developers will learn how to optimize better and games will look better as the years go by.
rolleyes.gif
The problem with your statement is that before the developer had to learn new custom architectures for the various consoles. There was a very steep and long learning curve to those very custom environments, that took years to understand and master.

That isn't how things are anymore, the new consoles are x86 environments, and the learning curve isn't as steep or long. Frankly, the new consoles are just small form factor PCs with a custom OS; they are going to be almost as bound as a PC using the same hardware. The only advantage the console has is around slightly better optimization, as the OS itself can be tailored to one very specific hardware set.

Anyone who doesn't believe the new consoles are very limited just hasn't been paying attention. We called this problem well a head of the launch, when the specs were just rumors.
 
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