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[pcper]PS4 and Xbox One Already Hitting a Performance Wall - Page 21

post #201 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

we also are on the brink of 4k and we also run 144FPS games natively.


lol

Maybe with 3x980Ti's, medium graphics, and a 5960X
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post #202 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyson Poindexter View Post

x86 has been around for like 20 years. If someone pulls a miracle out of their butt after 20 years of optimizing for the arch., I'm going to be impressed.

Besides, in those 5 years spent figuring out how to make a low-end APU provide decent performance, real PCs will wipe the floor with consoles so hard it won't even be funny.

Write exclusively for a 486 and see how well it runs on Vishera or Haswell compared to something written directly for those archs, I dare you.

"x86" has been around for 20+ years, that doesn't mean Jaguar has, let alone with a unified memory structure among other toys. x86 is a concept, like RISK, not a set-in-stone design. If it was, you would get non-existent performance improvements from each generation, not nearly non-existent ones.
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post #203 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post


Graphics are not everything no.. But if we start talking about other improvements, things like having a large number of NPCs on screen, well that pushes the CPU harder

More difficult AI? Again, going to push the CPU even harder

More realistic physics? CPU

Funny you mention Voxel Cone Ray Tracing however, One thing I did not mention is theres a theory out there that the Xbox One is capable of doing it

How if its so weak? Well simply put its the ESRAM:

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/so-could-the-x1s-secret-sauce-be-voxel-cone-ray-tracing.453362563/

That article sums it up, but essentially the ESRAM design seems almost perfect to hold partial resident textures, which will remove one of the big hardware issues holding back Voxel Cone Ray Tracing (Namely textures are MASSIVE) Using partial resident textures you could compress around 3gb of textures to fit into 16mb of ram.. Or in the One's case the 32mb of ESRAM.... So you could theoretically cram 6gb worth of textures in there...

Hey is anyone else seeing a little something relating to a little trend in PC titles lately? wink.gif

So to be clear, If this is correct then Yes, the Xbox One will get a huge jump in Graphical fidelity in a year or two HOWEVER, its prediction and speculation and might not even be true

And to clarify my earlier stance, I'm not saying some slight improvements are not possible, But without some form of new tech, like Voxel Cone Ray Tracing, I dont feel the hardware has enough power to begin with to truly advance graphical fidelity to the next level and my stance is more "The hardware shouldn't be counting on NEEDING such things to advance graphical fidelity in the short term, as betting on future promise sometimes is a bad decision

I'd also say that if the above is true MS and Sony are stupid for not coming out with some kind of demo to say "Look this isnt ready but heres what we will be able to do on these things in a year or two"
Edited by KenjiS - 10/28/14 at 1:13pm
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post #204 of 798
Quote:
PostalTwinkie: and some manipulation of known development techniques.

I see you missed the point entirely.
post #205 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustySteel View Post

I see you missed the point entirely.

No, you clearly missed it...

The techniques would be to lower resolution, and lower the entities on screen, additional effects, etc.

The current hardware in the newest consoles isn't going to be capable of rendering large numbers of NPC, along with things like advanced AI, or really any large number of CPU intensive tasks. They might eventually reach something near 60 FPS at 1080P, but it is going to be at the cost of other wanted aspects of a title.

In other words, we didn't gain anything with these new consoles over the last. Merely traded a few things for others.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 10/28/14 at 1:39pm
    
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post #206 of 798
Consoles are not mainstream computers and not constrained to the same resitrictions even if physically the same in restriction. Because the hardware is all the same developers can code specifically to the hardware which taps potential power to a level which a PC can't be tapped.
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post #207 of 798
So is anyone apart from Ubisoft saying this?
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post #208 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenjiS View Post

http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/21/is-this-mac-g5-the-xbox-360-dev-environment-box/

(Scroll down on this one)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1686/5

As for actually getting that working, Probubly not, they were running a custom Win NT Kernel to my knowledge

Basically the point is the "PC Simulating the console" thing isnt really "new" lol
Too bad would've been a really good use for a machine I rarely use.
post #209 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedyVT View Post

Consoles are not mainstream computers and not constrained to the same resitrictions even if physically the same in restriction.

Thats what i find shocking. How did they push these consoles to their limit so fast? From the performance they are achieving with both these consoles in like 10-15% difference from PC with similar hardware. I mean you can play most PC games @ 1080p with 4GB of RAM and 2GB vRAM. These consoles have 8GB and that does not take into account dont to metal optimization. They where able to make games work in PS3 with only 512MB overall memory where as the same game in PC required 2GB +.
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post #210 of 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

No, you clearly missed it...

The techniques would be to lower resolution, and lower the entities on screen, additional effects, etc.

The current hardware in the newest consoles isn't going to be capable of rendering large numbers of NPC, along with things like advanced AI, or really any large number of CPU intensive tasks. They might eventually reach something near 60 FPS at 1080P, but it is going to be at the cost of other wanted aspects of a title.

In other words, we didn't gain anything with these new consoles over the last. Merely traded a few things for others.


Your inability to think outside the box is showing. As an example, read the following article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-force-unleashed-60fps-tech-article

There will always be new ways to abstract and combine resources to create things you wouldn't have thought were possible from dusty tech, you just need a fresh approach and a clever head. That fact that you insist this type of thing is impossible is actually kind of sad. You need to dream a little bigger darling.
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