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Constructively criticize my guidelines on purchasing and picking PC components 12/1/2014

532 views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  hellojustinr 
#1 ·
I wanted to see how this would fare here, this is my own self-made guidelines that I have in my head when purchasing PC components and building PCs. This guideline is based on a perspective of building a PC for the purpose of gaming and gaming only. Video editing on the side and such but the main focus is for gaming. For video editing and such the list would look much different.

Also this is based on a perspective of building in the US and with US prices. Price difference can be a lot more severe in other parts of the world.

Also I make no mention of custom liquid cooling builds as I don't really have experience with one yet and it's more directed towards first-time buyers.

Anyways on to the guideline:


I build PCs with a very small budget so I can hit the sweet spot (getting more for my money).

If you give me a budget I can help you out with your planned build. Don't always have to go new, you can look towards used items as well.

This is normally the guideline I use when building a new PC (and to make sure not to spend too much on it):

CPUs = anything Intel Core i5 quad core and up from 2011 (Sandy Bridge) are good enough (today's 4.5th gen Devil's Canyon is literally only 10% faster clock-per-clock compared to 2011's 2nd gen Sandy and 4th gen Haswell and 3rd gen Ivy overclock worse in comparison to Sandy so gains can be offset)

Also worth pointing out:

Core i5 and i7 are same CPUs literally (when we are talking of a desktop i5 and i7 in the same generation). They are both quad-core, both same architecture, same die. The only difference is the L2 cache is twice more on the i7 and the HyperThreading feature. Both of these advantages are offset by the fact that the i5's 6MB of L2 cache is already more than what's needed by most games and the i7's HyperThreading does not always help in most situations. The extra $100 is simply not worth it, unless you are going for bragging rights. People saying the they need an i7 for there workflow or there field of work, anything a i5 cannot do, the i7 will not be able to do as well.

Do not overspend if you do not need to.

GPUs = anything high end from 2012 and up is good (so HD 7950/7970 and GTX 680 can be had for $150). At the current state of the market, there are two "high-end" segments, both of which have come to become very affordable (how times have changed)

1. there's the 280X/GTX 770 high-end "1080p HD Gaming" segment which are more than high-end enough for anyone using up to a 1080p display (which a large majority of PC gamers are). These cards can be had for below $200 as the GTX 770 is essentially just a rebadged GTX 680 and the 280X is just a rebadged 7970 both of which go for around the $150 range in the used market.

Essentially if you want a GTX 770's performance and want to save money try looking for it's older version, the GTX 680.

GTX 680 can be had for around $160-$170 easily while the GTX 770's stick more towards the $200 pallet. Why? because of the name. Yep ridiculous but that's how the market has worked for the past few years now. Also with more recent nomenclature names comes the greater guarantee of the card still having warranty (GTX 6xx came out two years ago while the GTX 7xx came out last year and some manufacturers only offer one year warranties). Nonetheless if you don't care about either (especially if you're buying used), these cards are both almost exactly same (with the exception of clock speeds which can be easily flashed over)

Same goes for the R9 280X, can be had for around $180 but it is essentially a rebadged HD 7970, which can be had for $150 so if you need to save that $30, look for the 7970 GHz Editions to guarantee core clock speeds of 1GHz as that's what the 280X are running at (280X = 7970 GHz Edition)

2. there's the 290/290X/GTX 780/GTX 780 Ti/GTX 970/GTX 980 "4K UHD Gaming" segment which is getting immensely populated. The fastest of the bunch being the R9 290X and the GTX 980.

R9 290 and R9 290X have received massive price drops in the retail department and can be had for as low as $240 for a R9 290 and $300 for an R9 290X. Very low indeed, there's a reason for that though, the R9 290 series run very, very hot and need to have their fan running at 90% all the time just to keep it optimally cooled. Even at 90% fan speed it will still overheat and throttle so aftermarket cooling is definitely necessary on these cards if you want to keep them both running quiet and at full potential. So you can see how it adds to the price when you have the necessity of having to buy a quality aftermarket cooler (Arctic Cooling Accelero IV or Hybrid II is recommendable). At full potential though the R9 290X can beat the GTX 980 in many situations (under 4K resolution) so it definitely still a steal at that price.

The GTX 780 and GTX 780 Ti have not really received price drops that coincide with the GTX 970 release which provide near 780 Ti performance at almost half the price ($350 vs $650) so I would stray far away from these if buying brand new and at the current moment, buying used as well as people seem to be over-valuing their GTX 780 GPUs (reselling them at $300+ when a brand new 970 can be had for just as much). Can't blame them, their GPUs were $450+ when first released.

The GTX 970 is the best bang for the buck indefinitely at the moment as you get $700+ 2013-early 2014 performance for just $350. The 980 is just a slightly faster card for those who really need the extra performance (3x 4K monitors anyone?)

Best bang for the buck in this 4K segment : GTX 970 and R9 290X

Buying anything below the "1080p HD" or "4K HD" gaming segment is a waste of money as the 1080p segment already touches near the $100-$150 mark.

Motherboards = most Z77s (LGA 1155) and Z87/Z97 (LGA 1150) are within $100 range nowadays, try to stick to it and not stray to far

PSU = Don't cut corners on this, get a good 750W or higher PSU at least. Anything around $70+ and 750W with 80+ rating will guarantee a good combination PSU

DO NOT BUY ULTRA PSUs that are always on sale at TigerDirect. There is a reason they are $30, they work fine but they are extremely inefficient.

RAM = Since RAM prices are up now, newcomers will be feeling a big blow to their pocket just buying RAM (unlike before where 8GB DDR3 RAM can be had for $50). If you have old DDR3 RAM laying around try re-using that. If not, try sticking towards $80 budget at most for a 2x4GB DDR3 1600 kit (8GB)

P.S. there was a explosion in the factory where a large majority of RAM was being produced as to why the prices have skyrocketed

SSD = Most 128GB SSDs are going for $70 range, some even $60, so they are well within the range of affordable now.

HDD = Try to aim for at least a 1TB 7200rpm HD as they are going for $50 range now and can store most games you'll need in the future.

CPU Cooling = To be honest, the Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO does just fine for most overclocking needs at $30. For more serious overclocking though, an H80i or Noctua NH-D14 will more than suffice at $70, and stay quiet at that too.

Case = that is completely up to you. Can't go wrong with your purchase as this depends on your personal taste and needs. Me personally, I tend to stay on the $50-$100 range when buying a case.

Following these guidelines, you can easily build a beast PC for around $600-$900 range.

For those more limited in budget, I would still follow the guidelines (specifically GPU) but change these out in order to build a near $450-$500 range gaming PC

CPU - either an FX 8350 used for $120-$130 range (remember, they are $150 brand new, great CPU for the buck btw at their current price point) or Pentium Dual Core G3258 Anniv. Edition unlocked for $60

EDIT: If you can find an FX 8370E, it would be a great alternative as well as the 8370E is a revised 8350 with lower TDP (can attain same clock speeds as the 8350 at much lower voltages, thereby lower temps and also possibly higher threshold room for OC since you won't be hitting a TDP or temperature ceiling as fast)

Motherboard - either a cheap 970 board for $50-$70 range used or a Z87/Z97 board for $80 range (there are a lot, you'll be surprised). I would not go B85 as you will not have much in terms of upgrade path later on (and you're only saving what, $20-$25?)

RAM - Get a 4GB kit for $50.

THINGS TO STAY AWAY FROM

FX 9590 or any FX 9000 series - RIP OFF, literally just hand-picked FX 8000 processors that can run at 4.6GHz and up. Along with that comes the heat issues it brings as well. So that extra performance doesn't just come for free, you're gonna have to add an expensive cooler's cost on top of that. All on top of nearly $100 more above the 8000 series prices. If you want really want a 5GHz FX, just try your luck and pick up an 8350/8370E and get a good cooler, most will reach 4.6-4.8GHz so you'll be well in the margin of performance.

FX 6000 and 4000 series CPUs - You will literally be getting the same performance as that $60 G3258 Anniv dual core processor for more and be locked into a more inferior platform as well at that (no offense AMD fanboys). Say goodbye to a meaningful upgrade down the road especially at this point in time (only upgrade path you have is 2012's FX 8300 series). If you're going FX, either go FX 8300 or go Intel. THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE OR EXCUSE!

R9 270 series - They retail for $130 and you are getting mid-range 2011 performance. At this point , think about going used.

Anything below R9 270 - you are throwing you're money away, you cannot afford a GPU yet and you are better of staying with integrated and keep saving until you can afford to spend at least $100 on a GPU. If you really need a GPU below $100 range aim for a GTX 560 Ti from 2011 or Radeon HD 6850 those can be had for around $70 easily and will provide you with good performance (not best bang for your buck as $30-$40 more you can easily have 3x the performance with the HD 7950 but this is only if you're strictly under a tight budget)

Hackintosh potential users - If you are in any way or form interested in getting involved with the hackintosh community, stay away from AMD, go Intel as Apple uses Intel inside all their current computers and almost everything is natively coded for Intel. The kernel from Apple works natively with almost any Intel processor vs having use a custom kernel in order to use AMD. Very big plus when it comes to resale value as well is having full hackintosh ability


DO NOT FLAME ME FOR THIS!!!! PLZ CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM ONLY
Admins, didn't know where to post this to be honest so posted in the most general CPU related section I could.
 
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#2 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojustinr View Post

PSU = Don't cut corners on this, get a good 750W or higher PSU at least. Anything around $70+ and 750W will guarantee a good combination PSU

FX 6000 and 4000 series CPUs - You will literally be getting the same performance as that $60 G3258 Anniv dual core processor for more and be locked into a more inferior platform as well at that. Say goodbye to a meaningful upgrade down the road.
While i certainly agree about not cutting corners with a PSU, 750w is overkill for most single GPU, mildly overclocked systems, Generally a i5-4690k @ 4.5ghz is gonna use ~160 watts, and a 290x ~300 watts(probably a fair bit less during general gaming), so a quality 550w-600w PSU will power such a system fine, and if you have a card like a 970, you could even get a 450w(though i'd still recommend a 550w unit)

I also agree with you about the FX-4xxx chips, but if you find a good deal on a FX-6300, its a good chip for the price ( Newegg has em for 90usd atm, very solid chip for that price so long as you OC)

Other than that, good points
 
#3 ·
I put in 750W because most quality 550W-650W PSUs are well within the range of $50-$70 and what's $10-$20 of savings down the road on something you're gonna keep for generations to come.

In odd generations like the current one we are in right now where a card like the 290X is consuming almost 400W of power alone, a person who well invested in a 750W PSU five years ago would be able to put it well into use now and would not have to re-buy another PSU just to use his newly-bought 290X.

But yes you are correct, you can get away with a 550W PSU easily with most configs nowadays. I personally just like eliminating variables and overcompensate some to future proof for future generations.

Also the FX 6300, true at $90 it is not so bad but it is also borderline very close to FX 8300 territory at $120 used and $150 new and even some Intel Core i5's.
 
#4 ·
For the AMD cpus I would suggest the new E series that are the same except they are 95w as opposed to 125w for the same price.
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by dranas View Post

For the AMD cpus I would suggest the new E series that are the same except they are 95w as opposed to 125w for the same price.
I should look into that. I've seen the 8370E but have no experience with it. Also when I recommend AMD I usually recommend overclocking and I feel as if the E series would not match up well in comparison to the non-E series processors.
 
#6 ·
The OC potential is likely higher with the E series due to the fact it only uses 95W at stock. The chips are identical except for their power usage.
 
#8 ·
So I guess it is like a more revised, mature version of the Piledriver 8300 CPU. Sounds good, will put that in my guidelines.

Looking up the 8370E though, the price seems a bit high ($170 retail vs $150 retail) and chances of finding one used might be even rarer (in comparison to say the 8350) but it definitely is a better alternative than the 8350 since it uses less power plus can clock to similar clock speeds at lower voltages.

Nonetheless, already added. Great addition.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellojustinr View Post

I put in 750W because most quality 550W-650W PSUs are well within the range of $50-$70 and what's $10-$20 of savings down the road on something you're gonna keep for generations to come.

In odd generations like the current one we are in right now where a card like the 290X is consuming almost 400W of power alone, a person who well invested in a 750W PSU five years ago would be able to put it well into use now and would not have to re-buy another PSU just to use his newly-bought 290X.

But yes you are correct, you can get away with a 550W PSU easily with most configs nowadays. I personally just like eliminating variables and overcompensate some to future proof for future generations.
Picking a properly rated PSU will bring down your electric bill. If your PSU has too much wattage for the build, it will be less efficient. I'm not saying this is going to make a huge difference, but I'm personally becoming a fan of efficiency. A 750W is complete overkill. My planned SLI-980 system with an i7-5820k is only using a 660W PSU. Thankfully, PSU's aren't as bad as my old 1000W unit that PEAKED at 50% efficiency, with worse ratings when under-utilized (which it was, I spent most of my research on shiny flashy GPU's and processors, not PSU's and case fans). However, I noticed a HUGE increase in my power bill when I spent a bunch of vacation I had to burn and picked my gaming habit back up. After about 3 months of no gaming, my power bill went up by $125 that billing cycle I was home.

Finally, with the direction parts are trending, a large PSU is not future-proofing. I could be wrong, but as you pointed out earlier, there isn't much difference between processors each generation now. Graphics cards are trending towards more efficiency too, if the rumors on the 380X are to be believed. Maxwell did some amazing things.
 
#10 ·
I would either go with smaller PSU and lean towards upgrading later or go all out in the beginning. 5960x OC can pull a lot of power and probably GM200 would pull quite a bit if it is on 28nm. Power usage is not necessarily going down for high performance parts.
 
#11 ·
All your other points are excellent. A lot of my friends look at me funny when I tell them I can build them something that will last quite a while on a sub-$1000 budget, especially when they know I am in the process of dropping around $2500 on my newest build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Testier View Post

I would either go with smaller PSU and lean towards upgrading later or go all out in the beginning. 5960x OC can pull a lot of power and probably GM200 would pull quite a bit if it is on 28nm. Power usage is not necessarily going down for high performance parts.
You're quoting two parts that don't fit the intent of OP's build guidelines, IMO. The enthusiast platform can pull a lot of power, that is true. Also, GM200 will be pulling in quite a bit more than GM204. However, for 1080P there is no reason to go GM200, as OP states in the first dissertation. OP's making a strong case against i7 (including i7-E) for this particular set of guidelines and I doubt they would find a place for GM200 unless they were going for a 4k powerhouse on the most bootstrapped budget they could manage. However, the decisions to be made there will run on such thin margins I wouldn't want to speculate just yet.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Random Guy View Post

All your other points are excellent. A lot of my friends look at me funny when I tell them I can build them something that will last quite a while on a sub-$1000 budget, especially when they know I am in the process of dropping around $2500 on my newest build.
You're quoting two parts that don't fit the intent of OP's build guidelines, IMO. The enthusiast platform can pull a lot of power, that is true. Also, GM200 will be pulling in quite a bit more than GM204. However, for 1080P there is no reason to go GM200, as OP states in the first dissertation. OP's making a strong case against i7 (including i7-E) for this particular set of guidelines and I doubt they would find a place for GM200 unless they were going for a 4k powerhouse on the most bootstrapped budget they could manage. However, the decisions to be made there will run on such thin margins I wouldn't want to speculate just yet.
No, just pointing out that power consumption is not exactly decreasing.

Honestly for 4k, I am really leaning towards 3 x 970s.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Random Guy View Post

Picking a properly rated PSU will bring down your electric bill. If your PSU has too much wattage for the build, it will be less efficient. I'm not saying this is going to make a huge difference, but I'm personally becoming a fan of efficiency. A 750W is complete overkill. My planned SLI-980 system with an i7-5820k is only using a 660W PSU. Thankfully, PSU's aren't as bad as my old 1000W unit that PEAKED at 50% efficiency, with worse ratings when under-utilized (which it was, I spent most of my research on shiny flashy GPU's and processors, not PSU's and case fans). However, I noticed a HUGE increase in my power bill when I spent a bunch of vacation I had to burn and picked my gaming habit back up. After about 3 months of no gaming, my power bill went up by $125 that billing cycle I was home.

Finally, with the direction parts are trending, a large PSU is not future-proofing. I could be wrong, but as you pointed out earlier, there isn't much difference between processors each generation now. Graphics cards are trending towards more efficiency too, if the rumors on the 380X are to be believed. Maxwell did some amazing things.
This statement is very true as well. There are "quality" efficient 750W PSUs that go for $70 that's why I picked that. The ones you might be aiming for are extremely efficient quality PSUs like the be quiet! Dark Power Pro 750W power supply units which go for $170 in comparison.

They seem worth it but they also seem to be asking somewhat of a very large premium (does it really need to cost $100 more?). At the $170 price range, I usually expect at least a 1000W PSU and it is pushing towards 1200W-1400W PSU bracket. For sake of efficiency I would be willing to compromise and take at least 850W but going all the way back to 750W seems a bit much, I can see why as it's early tech and there doesn't seem to be a lot of PSUs pushing for efficiency like be quiet! has been at the moment but I want to wait till the price goes down to a more reasonable level like per say $130 for the 750W model (meaning lower wattage models will also be priced more reasonably)

For now, for the average gamer they would be more worried about having enough wattage and amperage for their system components than extreme efficiency considering most PSUs are 80+ certified and are very efficient already.

Also keep in mind there are also cheaper 750W PSUs as well like the UItra LSPs which are actually not that bad (efficiency wise, not the best though), retailing for $30-$50 range, settling for something two tiers above it at the $70-$90 bracket (Corsair TX PSUs or XFX or ANTEC PSUs) made sense to me.

Also about GPUs trending towards efficiency, that is only at this point in time as architectures are reaching a point of maturation (Fermi maturized over two years, Kepler maturized over two years, Maxwell being built and based on those improvements while not really pushing the performance envelope)

When the performance envelope is pushed again, new GPU architectures will either have to be extremely efficient or push towards using more power for more performance and if history is to be used as reference, it's almost always an increase in power usage in comparison to the preceding generation's extremely efficient architecture. A great example of that inefficiency still existing is the R9 290X (and 7970 that preceded before that), you can see how AMD is behind by looking at the 6900 series power usage and then the 7900 series, seeing as to how they decided to throw away all efficiency to compete with NVIDIA, not that a lot of gamers will notice or care but it is there.

While NVIDIA has been pushing towards extreme efficiency, they also have had their time when Fermi first came out three-four years ago with the GTX 480.

For processors, AMD is now just catching up with the efficiency movement as well with the release of their E-variant processors. So we still have a long way to go.

As for the wattage I picked, by future-proofing, when a new GPU or CPU generation comes out, whether efficient or not, regardless you will be able to run it, possibly even two GPUs in CFX/SLI without having to go out and having to buy another one as that would mean you would have had to take a loss on your current PSU (either resell or keep for loss) and why do that when you can avoid it altogether from the beginning.

Most high-end future-proofed systems cap at, at least 750W that's why I picked that as a quality 750W PSU can guarantee powering two older generation, power-hungry 7970s so going forward it should be able to power two newer-gen GPUs as well
 
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