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Finalmouse 2015 - Page 402

post #4011 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmoftw View Post

can the FM cable be swapped?

Technically any cable can be swapped. Some are just more involved to do.
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post #4012 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

He said they are keeping the same implementation they have already. That means the MCU filtering will still be present in the 3310 mice they sell and it will be set to 500Hz. If you like the delayed cursor response and an angle snapping feel you will be happy with their 3310 mice.

The MCU will be different in the 3360 mice and the filtering will not be used. Also, it will run at 1000Hz.

Is the implementation of the 3310 in the Final Mouse different from the Zowie implementation?
I'd like to buy the FK1 or the Tournament Pro, but I don't want a delayed cursor or angle snapping :/
post #4013 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by broodro0ster View Post

Is the implementation of the 3310 in the Final Mouse different from the Zowie implementation?
I'd like to buy the FK1 or the Tournament Pro, but I don't want a delayed cursor or angle snapping :/

Delayed cursor? You mean the added delay due to inherent smoothing? Its slightly bigger on the FM than zowie if thats the case. If you want none of that 3090 or 3366 is your way to go.
post #4014 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by broodro0ster View Post

Is the implementation of the 3310 in the Final Mouse different from the Zowie implementation?
I'd like to buy the FK1 or the Tournament Pro, but I don't want a delayed cursor or angle snapping :/

Of course they are different.

The 3310 feels as if the sensor inherently has some degree of angle snapping like behavior. If you want something that feels less like that you will go for a 3366, MLT04 or a 3360 (possibly a 3090).

FinalMouse will offer a 3360 mouse in the future, but it will be in the form of the Scream1, which is a more expensive Tournament Pro.

Zowie mice are expensive for what they are. The Scream1 will be even more expensive and offers less features than the Zowie mice.
Edited by popups - 1/26/16 at 12:49am
post #4015 of 4666
"jan 22-25"

...delayed again.


Edited by suneatshours86 - 1/26/16 at 1:01am
post #4016 of 4666
Well, at least all you love birds know what to hint about for a valentines gift...#maybe lachen.gif
post #4017 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

The 3310 feels mice that I've tried feel as if the sensor inherently has some degree of angle snapping like behavior.
Fixed that for you.

You're still talking like mice are all the same as long as they have the same sensor.

The FM is completely different from other 3310 mice. Every mouse with the 3310 sensor is completely different. I don't know why you're not understanding this.

It makes your following sentence complete misinformation:
Quote:
If you want something that feels less like that you will go for a 3366, MLT04 or a 3360 (possibly a 3090).

All the 3090 mice and 3366 mice that I've tried are nowhere near the MLT04. The FM & DA4g are by far the closest.
Edited by MaximilianKohler - 1/26/16 at 2:50am
    
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post #4018 of 4666
Sigh. The difference in the feeling you get from the same sensor in different mice is objectively noticeable only when the implementation is messed up, like it is on some level in the FM (feeling the difference in the silicon die variance is r0ach level stuff unless something is messed up heavily and then it's just per unit basis). Otherwise, if the manufacturer somewhat followed the datasheet of the sensor, the differences you feel when comparing two different mice are mostly caused by the shape, the sensor position and your subjective bias. Rival and Avior, for example, do not differ at all when it comes to the SROM or the sensor startup procedure versus the FM, they just don't process the sensor's input as much as the FM does before sending it to the PC. KPM differs a bit by having an older SROM which has the infamous PMW3310 CPI bug. Maybe you just prefer the smoothed tracking in the FM over the more raw implementations, especially the PMW3366 mice? Obviously, this is subjective and not a bad thing - until you go on trying to debunk the fact that FM has more input processing and thus is less raw.
post #4019 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

Fixed that for you.

You're still talking like mice are all the same as long as they have the same sensor.

The FM is completely different from other 3310 mice. Every mouse with the 3310 sensor is completely different. I don't know why you're not understanding this.

It makes your following sentence complete misinformation:
All the 3090 mice and 3366 mice that I've tried are nowhere near the MLT04. The FM & DA4g are by far the closest.

The statements I have seen about various 3310 mice attest to that notion. You can see that in videos, paint drawings, user opinions, etc. Then there is the whole post processing [smoothing and filtering] that supposedly will straighten out movements.

The tracking method for the Avago/PixArt sensors isn't vastly different between models. The 3310 is going to use the same method regardless of the mouse it's in. There could be different settings used, but that won't make a 3310 behave like a MLT04. You read about it in the patents PDFs.

I think you stretch too far with this "variances make every single mouse completely incomparable to another" belief. You even say one FM shouldn't be compared to another.

It doesn't appear you can differentiate the nuances of a sensor/mouse as much as you think you can. Saying a FM is on the level of an IntelliMouse affirms this. People have explained why you are being unreasonable by showing you the information that contradicts your opinions. Yet you continue as if your ego won't allow you to accept you're human.
Edited by popups - 1/26/16 at 5:48am
post #4020 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

Sigh. The difference in the feeling you get from the same sensor in different mice is objectively noticeable only when the implementation is messed up,
This is completely false. I've tested numerous 3310 mice, and lots of other mice, and they ALL are significantly different. Even a firmware/SROM update can have major affects on the same mouse. This is common knowledge.

Quote:
the differences you feel when comparing two different mice are mostly caused by the shape, the sensor position and your subjective bias.
This is 100% false, and I have proven it to be false numerous times on these forums and in my video reviews.
Quote:
Maybe you just prefer the smoothed tracking in the FM over the more raw implementations, especially the PMW3366 mice?
No.

We've been over this many times before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

The statements I have seen about various 3310 mice attest to that notion. You can see that in videos, paint drawings, user opinions, etc. Then there is the whole post processing [smoothing and filtering] that supposedly will straighten out movements.

The tracking method for the Avago/PixArt sensors isn't vastly different between models. The 3310 is going to use the same method regardless of the mouse it's in. There could be different settings used, but that won't make a 3310 behave like a MLT04. You read about it in the patents PDFs.
These bolded parts are a prime example of the problem. You seem to base everything off specs, without actually testing anything. That is an extremely flawed approach.

Quote:
I think you stretch too far with this "variances make every single mouse completely incomparable to another" belief. You even say one FM shouldn't be compared to another.
I showed in my FM review that different FMs perform significantly different.
Quote:
It doesn't appear you can differentiate the nuances of a sensor/mouse as much as you think you can.
What are you basing this on? This is such an absurd comment considering you haven't even done any testing yourself.......................

Quote:
Saying a FM is on the level of an IntelliMouse affirms this.
Please read more carefully. I said the FM and DA4g are the CLOSEST to the MLT04. I did not say they were on the same level.
Quote:
People have explained why you are being unreasonable by showing you the information that contradicts your opinions. Yet you continue as if your ego won't allow you to accept you're human.
Please elaborate on this. I do not know what you're referring to. As far as I can tell this comment seems show that you've completely missed or misunderstood previous debates.

God, I really feel like almost no one on these forums actually comprehends even 10% of the discussion that occurs.......
Edited by MaximilianKohler - 1/26/16 at 6:05am
    
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