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Finalmouse 2015 - Page 403

post #4021 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post


God, I really feel like almost no one on these forums actually comprehends even 10% of the discussion that occurs.......

Well some people read with their eyes shut and assume things in a weird way.

May I ask you what in the FM strived for it to be in the same spectrum as a DA4g and to be in a remote way close to a MLT04?

What about DA3.5g or DA3g?
post #4022 of 4666
Well, you're free to leave and spread the Objective Truth of your feelings somewhere where there are beings on your intellectual level. rolleyes.gif
post #4023 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

This is completely false. I've tested numerous 3310 mice, and lots of other mice, and they ALL are significantly different. Even a firmware/SROM update can have major affects on the same mouse. This is common knowledge.
This is 100% false, and I have proven it to be false numerous times on these forums and in my video reviews.
No.

We've been over this many times before.
These bolded parts are a prime example of the problem. You seem to base everything off specs, without actually testing anything. That is an extremely flawed approach.
I showed in my FM review that different FMs perform significantly different.

What are you basing this on? This is such an absurd comment considering you haven't even done any testing yourself.......................

Please read more carefully. I said the FM and DA4g are the CLOSEST to the MLT04. I did not say they were on the same level.
Please elaborate on this. I do not know what you're referring to. As far as I can tell this comment seems show that you've completely missed or misunderstood previous debates.

God, I really feel like almost no one on these forums actually comprehends even 10% of the discussion that occurs.......

Rather it appears to be that you only understand 10% of the conversations on this forum. Whether that's because you don't read everything or you refuse to believe what you read.

My comments are based off datasheets, patent papers, forum posts, videos, tests and personal experience. I won't buy every mouse to subjectively "test" them with the intent of spreading my opinion as gospel.

Could it be your opinion about the Kone Military feeling better than the FK1 was purely down to the CPI bug? That you got fooled by the difference in CPI? I have seen that before (I think it was the great one [r0ach]).

The amount of post processing the FM has and your opinion about the FM leads me to think you can't differentiate between sensors/mice like you think you can. You didn't notice it in the FM, Avior 7000 or the DA 4G. Nor do you notice the behavior of the MLT04 that I stated earlier.
Edited by popups - 1/26/16 at 6:44am
post #4024 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

This is completely false. I've tested numerous 3310 mice, and lots of other mice, and they ALL are significantly different. Even a firmware/SROM update can have major affects on the same mouse. This is common knowledge.
Yes, they are when it comes to the shape and other physical factors. No when it comes to anything related to electronics per se when talking about the same sensor. Firmware/SROM update obviously can have a huge effect, that is why I said "when the implementation is messed up". MCU doesn't make a difference in the tracking feeling unless it's not working like it should - this would be seen in odd mousetester behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

This is 100% false, and I have proven it to be false numerous times on these forums and in my video reviews.
I've yet to see any tests where you do ABX blind testing. Assuming the mouse works fine, how have you proven it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

No.

We've been over this many times before.
No? That's what the mouse feels like and you prefer it over the mice that do not feel like it (PMW3366). Facts back this up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

God, I really feel like almost no one on these forums actually comprehends even 10% of the discussion that occurs.......
Pretty sure that applies to you much more than to anyone else in here. You have no facts about anything and are just assuming and going by feel which is incredibly susceptible to subjective bias and placebo. You clearly do not seem to notice small imperfections in mice sensors if you don't notice the smoothing in the FM/PMW3310 (which most of us probably don't feel). I am not saying your subjective opinion is wrong, by all means prefer the sensors you do. However, using words like "raw" "best" "most accurate" etc. is nonsense when it's factually proven it's not the case.
Edited by trism - 1/26/16 at 7:20am
post #4025 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by zekron View Post

Well some people read with their eyes shut and assume things in a weird way.

May I ask you what in the FM strived for it to be in the same spectrum as a DA4g and to be in a remote way close to a MLT04?

What about DA3.5g or DA3g?
Check the FM and DA reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd

Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

I won't buy every mouse to subjectively "test" them with the intent of spreading my opinion as gospel.
Jesus christ man, you're already doing that without even testing the mice for yourself. You constantly state as fact misinformation based off the fact that you haven't even tested the mice you're talking about.

Quote:
Could it be your opinion about the Kone Military feeling better than the FK1 was purely down to the CPI bug? That you got fooled by the difference in CPI?
From what I remember, I never came across that bug because I think it required you to install the drivers, which I don't do. And the majority of people in the KPM thread were in agreement with me regarding the sensor performance.
Quote:
The amount of post processing the FM has and your opinion about the FM leads me to think you can't differentiate between sensors/mice like you think you can. You didn't notice it in the FM, Avior 7000 or the DA 4G. Nor do you notice the behavior of the MLT04 that I stated earlier.
Ok, this is just a boatload of misinformation and is a perfect example of what I just said about people not comprehending anything that's discussed on these forums.

These have been addressed tens of times. Clearly it's a waste of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

"when the implementation is messed up"
That's a useless statement to make then. Because in that case virtually every implementation is "messed up".
Quote:
this would be seen in odd mousetester behavior.
I have shown odd/unique mousetester behavior in a variety of mice, and used that behavior to support my conclusions.
Quote:
I've yet to see any tests where you do ABX blind testing.
That's more or less a ridiculously high bar to set. No one has the means to do that. But I'm more than willing if I'm given the tools.
Quote:
Assuming the mouse works fine, how have you proven it?
Mouse tester graphs. Check my most recent reviews: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd
Quote:
No? That's what the mouse feels like and you prefer it over the mice that do not feel like it (PMW3366). Facts back this up.
No. We JUST got done discussing this YET AGAIN. Please go back and read the last few pages in this thread that you seem to have missed.
Quote:
Pretty sure that applies to you much more than to anyone else in here. You have no facts about anything and are just assuming and going by feel which is incredibly susceptible to subjective bias and placebo. You clearly do not seem to notice small imperfections in mice sensors if you don't notice the smoothing in the FM/PMW3310 (which most of us probably don't feel). I am not saying your subjective opinion is wrong, by all means prefer the sensors you do. However, using words like "raw" "best" "most accurate" etc. is nonsense when it's factually proven it's not the case.
Blah blah blah. I've taken the time to prove these same accusations wrong over and over. Clearly there are a lot of people on here who have horrible reading comprehension and thus taking the time to explain and discuss things on here is a complete waste of time.
    
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post #4026 of 4666
>From what I remember, I never came across that bug because I think it required you to install the drivers, which I don't do.

Wrong. The CPI bug is there when you /don't/ install the drivers. You have to install the drivers and enable liftoff calibration to avoid the bug. You also need to install the drivers to update firmware and get low button latency, which absolutely affects the subjective feel of spray control and twitching. After this the only things left the FM did well that the KPM didn't were the shape and weight.
post #4027 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

From what I remember, I never came across that bug because I think it required you to install the drivers, which I don't do. And the majority of people in the KPM thread were in agreement with me regarding the sensor performance.
No, you can sort of fix it with the drivers by using the DCU. By default, the DCU is toggled off and the mouse has the bug. The only true way to fix it is to do what I did: switch to the newer version of the SROM by flashing it manually in the nor flash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

That's a useless statement to make then. Because in that case virtually every implementation is "messed up".
It's not an useless statement to make. You literally have to code something wrong to get the firmware to cause differences. You can't claim all implementations are "messed up" just because you subjectively feel that something is off. I could take the same approach and claim that your head is "messed up". However, there are some implementations that are messed up like the Aurora's, FM's and the CM Xornet v2's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

I have shown odd/unique mousetester behavior in a variety of mice, and used that behavior to support my conclusions.
I've only seen you claiming that mice which have xCounts deviating from the averaged line are bad, which obviously is not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

That's more or less a ridiculously high bar to set. No one has the means to do that. But I'm more than willing if I'm given the tools.
That's the only way to prove anything. Right now, the person saying Zowies tracking feeling is the most raw and best non-smoothed input there is is as right as you are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

No. We JUST got done discussing this YET AGAIN. Please go back and read the last few pages in this thread that you seem to have missed.
Oh I read it, but that's how it is. You stated many times there that FM feels "more connected" and "raw" when it isn't. It can subjectively feel so for you. I don't have any problems if you start using "in my opinion" instead of claiming that your subjective findings are facts or somehow hold more value than those of others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

Blah blah blah. I've taken the time to prove these same accusations wrong over and over. Clearly there are a lot of people on here who have horrible reading comprehension and thus taking the time to explain and discuss things on here is a complete waste of time.
What exactly have you proven? That your subjective opinion is somehow more right than the actual facts we have and the opinions of others are wrong? You're a human, you have a bias. You do experience placebo whether you accept it or not, and the shape and other physical factors play a huge role in the overall feeling.
post #4028 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

You literally have to code something wrong to get the firmware to cause differences. You can't claim all implementations are "messed up" just because you subjectively feel that something is off. I could take the same approach and claim that your head is "messed up". However, there are some implementations that are messed up like the Aurora's, FM's and the CM Xornet v2's.

Wasn't the FM's firmware fixed with the summer edition? Or are we talking about another problem?
    
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post #4029 of 4666
Well, I called it messed up because it is processing the input without a real need for it and is locked to 500 Hz. The summer edition fixed the CPI bug by updating to the newer version of the SROM.
post #4030 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

Well, I called it messed up because it is processing the input without a real need for it and is locked to 500 Hz. The summer edition fixed the CPI bug by updating to the newer version of the SROM.

Ah alright, so you're talking about the smoothing regardless of DPI step, yeah I could see why you consider it messed up then.
    
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