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Finalmouse 2015 - Page 423

post #4221 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

That's due to your habits and physical limitations.

We all have physical limitations at some point. There is no reason to make it more difficult for yourself to gain super fast movements, if that was the case, every pro would be using sky-high sensitivity levels..
post #4222 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

Just as your explanation is. I use both arm and the wrist to move my mouse and high up position messes up the ratio of the moved distance between arm/wrist movement since the arc gets longer. You cannot compensate this by changing sensitivity. Lower position allows me to have higher sensitivity to turn around fast with arm and still be precise with wrist pivoting. I use relatively high sensitivity with the mice where the sensor is located optimally (~30 cm/360).

Exactly.
post #4223 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonagold View Post

You can always change the sensitivity if it is too slow for you, no reason to compromise accurate wrist control for that.. More the cross-hair moves with same wrist movement = more inaccuracy..

I think it is more important to have better accuracy in wrist movements than in whole hand movements since wrist movement is the last adjustment you do while aiming. You can always compensate poor whole hand aim by doing accurate wrist compensation before you shoot, not other way around.. So best possible accuracy for wrist movements and if you need more speed just increase sensitivity level..

If you increase sensitivity it can ruin flick shots when set to high for your physical limitations or monitor motion blur.

I don't even pay attention to the crosshair. Once you reach a certain skill level the crosshair becomes unnecessary, it only helps you know your timing and make proper adjustments at long range. When you get good enough you can hit head shots without a crosshair on your screen.

I use my fingers for small adjustments and short tracking of targets. My wrist movements are for hitting flicks shots when opponents are running out of cover or when I am using the AWP. Arm movements are for checking spots and hitting multiple targets quickly.
Edited by popups - 2/2/16 at 4:30am
post #4224 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

If you increase sensitivity it can ruin flick shots when set to high for your physical limitations or monitor motion blur.

I don't even pay attention to the crosshair. Once you reach a certain skill level the crosshair becomes unnecessary, it only helps you know your timing and make proper adjustments at long range. When you get good enough you can hit head shots without a crosshair on your screen.

I use my fingers for small adjustments and short tracking of targets. My wrist movements is for hitting flicks shots when opponents are running out of cover or when I am using the AWP. Arm movements are for checking spots and hitting multiple targets quickly.

I meant crosshair as your whole screen position/movement.. No, monitor motion blur has nothing to do with it.. This is conversation is going to so pseudo scientific degrees I don't even.. Again flick shoots are missed due to different muscle memory.. Just optimize your settings and then let your muscle memory to adjust itself.. You will keep coming back to that old position as long as you let your muscle memory to control your setup.. Muscle memory will follow in time if you give it time.. Sometimes it takes months.. No reason to argue things that are personal due to personal past experiences where your muscle memory was built..
post #4225 of 4666
That thread is entirely the same type of theory what you accused Nilizum of. His videos are very inconclusive and false. In the one where he tried to prove the arm "sensitivity" is the same as wrist "sensitivity"... maybe close to it if you talk about only the one type of arm movement, the rotation from elbow vs. the rotation from the wrist. When I move my arm, the mouse doesn't really rotate at all as I don't pivot from the elbow that much, just move my entire arm. The one where he shows the deviated distance from the x-axis is false too since he is gripping the mouse wrong. If the mouse is tilted, obviously it will track like that.
Edited by trism - 2/2/16 at 4:35am
post #4226 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonagold View Post

I meant crosshair as your whole screen position/movement.. No, monitor motion blur has nothing to do with it.. This is conversation is going to so pseudo scientific degrees I don't even.. Again flick shoots are missed due to different muscle memory.. Just optimize your settings and then let your muscle memory to adjust itself.. You will keep coming back to that old position as long as you let your muscle memory to control your setup.. Muscle memory will follow in time if you give it time.. Sometimes it takes months.. No reason to argue things that are personal due to personal past experiences where your muscle memory was built..

I don't rely on "muscle memory," I rely on technique. Hence the statement about not needing a crosshair to hit targets. Will your "muscle memory" allow you to hit head shots with cl_drawhud 0? Sometimes I practice with cl_drawhud 0 to reinforce my technique.

Monitor motion blur can give you the wrong idea of where a player really is when your screen is moving very fast during a flick shot. That's kind of problematic for fast head shots. When you have a good monitor it really isn't a problem unless you have very unstable FPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

That thread is entirely the same type of theory what you accused Nilizum of..

So moving the sensor forward or back does nothing at all?

Wasn't his [Nilizum] idea that every mouse shape has to have a specific sensor position to be perfect?

That other guy is simply saying a further forward sensor position give you a larger radius. Quake players would appreciate that because they use a lot of wrist movement.
Edited by popups - 2/2/16 at 4:51am
post #4227 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

So moving the sensor forward or back does nothing at all?

Wasn't his [Nilizum] idea that every mouse shape has to have a specific sensor position to be perfect?

That other guy is simply saying a further forward sensor position give you a larger radius. Quake players would appreciate that because they use a lot of wrist movement.
No, I meant that it's just a theory. The sensor position obviously defines how much you turn when you make the mouse travel in an arc via elbow or wrist pivoting. I personally kind of agree with Nilizum though, as I gained the most in accuracy/precision when I went from KPM/FK to Kinzuadder and Rival 100. The sensor position in Rival 100 and Kinzu looks very low but the sensors end up being at the same distance from my wrist than other mice Nilizum mentioned, mainly due to the wider butt and my grip.

But again: these are mostly opinions and based on preferences. I just hope the sensor doesn't end up locating much higher in the Scream One because the current position looks like a good compromise imo. (Most likely ending 0.5 mm - 1cm higher than in the mice I prefer since it has the wider butt and the sensor looks to be over the middle already)
post #4228 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism View Post

No, I meant that it's just a theory. The sensor position obviously defines how much you turn when you make the mouse travel in an arc via elbow or wrist pivoting. I personally kind of agree with Nilizum though, as I gained the most in accuracy/precision when I went from KPM/FK to Kinzuadder and Rival 100. The sensor position in Rival 100 and Kinzu looks very low but the sensors end up being at the same distance from my wrist than other mice Nilizum mentioned, mainly due to the wider butt and my grip.

But again: these are mostly opinions and based on preferences. I just hope the sensor doesn't end up locating much higher in the Scream One because the current position looks like a good compromise imo. (Most likely ending 0.5 mm - 1cm higher than in the mice I prefer since it has the wider butt and the sensor looks to be over the middle already)

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522415/the-importance-of-sensor-positioning/0_30

Nilizum says there is a "ghost curve" that has to be accounted for with some mice.

Quote:
The shape and butt of the mouse makes the mouse fit further away from the wrist, so the sensor position has to be calculated with the "ghost curve" in mind. Mice like the Abyssus also have a ghost curve. The Abyssus 2014 slopes has a curve, however it is still a mild ghost curve because it is a steep incline to where the mouse will fit more forward in the hand.

So every mouse "needs" to have a different sensor position. Also, how you grip the mouse will change everything.

Quote:
It is a false belief and bad research that results in people claiming that a "centered" sensor position is a cure all, because mice have different lengths, different shapes, and different butts. Sadly life is not that easy.
Quote:
Butt width of the mouse is also something to consider as how wide the butt of the mouse is determines how forward or under one holds the mouse via non-fingertip grip.

Some people like to have their hand ride on top of the mouse, others like to have it planted on the mouse pad. Sensor position will be different depending on where you place your hand and the shape of the mouse. That's why I don't see this concept accomplishing the intended goal for everyone.

Quote:
So what about effort when moving the mouse with the wrist? If the reference point for maximum effort is the position of the wrist relative to the x axis denoted by our elbow joint, then what is the reference point denoted by the wrist joint? This is the most tricky part, because every holds their mouse differently, with different grip styles and different extremities of the curve at which they move their mouse.

Keep in mind he doesn't really consider that some people do change their grip and methods of movement based off the situation. For movement you can switch between using your shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers. Your grip can change between finger tip, palm and claw based on what your opponent is doing or the weapon you're using.

I don't stick to one grip or method of movement. Whatever is necessary to land the shot I will do.
Edited by popups - 2/2/16 at 5:44am
post #4229 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

I don't rely on "muscle memory," I rely on technique. Hence the statement about not needing a crosshair to hit targets. Will your "muscle memory" allow you to hit head shots with cl_drawhud 0? Sometimes I practice with cl_drawhud 0 to reinforce my technique.

Monitor motion blur can give you the wrong idea of where a player really is when your screen is moving very fast during a flick shot. That's kind of problematic for fast head shots. When you have a good monitor it really isn't a problem unless you have very unstable FPS.
So moving the sensor forward or back does nothing at all?

Wasn't his [Nilizum] idea that every mouse shape has to have a specific sensor position to be perfect?

That other guy is simply saying a further forward sensor position give you a larger radius. Quake players would appreciate that because they use a lot of wrist movement.

At least in csgo the duration of shots called "flick_shots" is around 10-100 ms otherwise it is aim-tracking.. Human can react around 150ms at fastest so there is no way you can do any changes to your flick-shots while you are doing it based on any blurred images..

The mechanic of flick-shot is that you see (eye) the position of the enemy and then your brain sends impulses to move certain muscles in certain orders and timings and when those impulses reach your muscles and do the job you will either hit or miss the enemy depending if you managed to send correct impulses. Correct impulses comes from your muscle memory.. Which is basically brains remembering those right impulses for certain distances you need to move to reach the target..

Tracking-aim is like doing that flick-aim over and over again and not pressing the mousebutton..

It is difficult trying to discuss with you when you have no conception of basic terminology and mechanics.. That also kind of takes away cred on anything you say, not to mention you seem to have no logic behind your opinions at all.
Edited by Jonagold - 2/2/16 at 6:17am
post #4230 of 4666
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinalmouseJude View Post

I try and state the wet on scale weight when I can. I had posted pictures several months back.

The hard part is that we cant just officially weigh the mice with the cable because naturally a braided cable will weigh anything down even if its hanging off a scale. So the factory does the weight prewiring and assembly.

We are putting up a specifications/comparison page soon that will have all these more detailed specs written out.

But in general you get around `~86-87 grams wet weight on the Pro, and 84-86 on the classic.

S1 was initially supposed to be heavier but we made a mistake with the PCB, it will actually be lighter than the tournament pro, since about 20% of the pcb is no longer there since no LED is necessary for the sensor.

There is a way we can cut about 5 grams off of the weight of the pro and get it down to an official 71 grams preassembly but at that point you begin sacrificing sensor performance. With the 3360 maintaining stability is very important and when you cut out too much weight then the mouse naturally starts tilting, being lifted naturally when swiped, etc....

So its actually pretty hard to go below 70 grams.

So then your company should have been listing the weights as 84-86 and 86-87 (heck go with the low number, that's fine). It's absolutely misleading to brag about your "Industry Leading Super-Lightweight" 74g mouse when you know that that's a misrepresentation compared to other companies' weight listings (who might weigh without that bit of cable inside since they're generally 2-3g less than actual rather than your 10-13g). A big reason why people have been excited about the Finalmouse offerings is because they're under the false impression that they're significantly lighter than other mice comparable in size, but that's not actually the case. No, you guys technically aren't lying, but you've been knowingly misleading and that's pretty crappy.

And as someone else mentioned you could just cut the cord off at the the mouse's exit anyway. That's the weight people want to know about.
Edited by a_ak57 - 2/2/16 at 7:01am
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