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post #811 of 4669
You have to understand that the calibration is almost necessary for optimum tracking when you change DPI, etc. If it never recalibrated when you changed DPI or mousepads, the 3310 wouldn't be nearly as renowned in the the mouse-geek community as it is for its accurate tracking, because each different DPI or surface material/texture/color give different sensor tracking data. And if it only recalibrated when told to by the user, most users wouldn't think or know to do this or understand in which situations it was appropriate. That's why 3310 mice calibrate each time they power on or change setting.

I appreciate this "feature" now that I understand it. I noticed this problem a long time ago and thought it had to do with my mousepad or something, so I just got in the habit of always rebooting anytime I needed to replug my mouse or change a setting. Why this worked, I've know come to find out, is because I wouldn't be moving or lifting my mouse from my mousepad while I was waiting for the computer to reboot, so it got a repeatable calibration on my mousepad every time I rebooted.

So now I know the reboot isn't exactly necessary anytime I replug or change settings, I instead just try to keep my mouse in the middle of my mousepad and move it around a bit any time it would be recalibrating. Including any time I'm starting or rebooting Windows. And I move it around a little because I found that it gives a better LOD calibration when doing so as opposed to leaving it completely stationary during the few seconds it's calibrating. I've found this method gives me 100% consistent DPI measurements of 800 (what it's set to) with my 3310 sensor.
Edited by VolsAndJezuz - 3/8/15 at 2:30pm
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post #812 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximilianKohler View Post

I have big hands. My thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obth3SPIz44&list=PLZ2riVNLJly0KG7Z8albMETEmbRB8bCzd&index=1

Yes, I watched your video and noticed that biggrin.gif

Unfortunately, your mouse grip isn't very comparable to mine in general so I wanted to hear from other large-handed Finalmouse owners
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post #813 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolsAndJezuz View Post

You have to understand that the calibration is almost necessary for optimum tracking when you change DPI, etc. If it never recalibrated when you changed DPI or mousepads, the 3310 wouldn't be nearly as renowned in the the mouse-geek community as it is for it's accurate tracking. And if it only recalibrated when told to by the user, most users wouldn't think or know to do this or understand in which situations it was appropriate. That's why 3310 mice calibrate each time they power on or change setting.

I appreciate this "feature" now that I understand it. I noticed this problem a long time ago and thought it had to do with my mousepad or something, so I just got in the habit of always rebooting anytime I needed to replug my mouse or change a setting. Why this worked, I've know come to find out, is because I wouldn't be moving or lifting my mouse from my mousepad while I was waiting for the computer to reboot, so it got a repeatable calibration on my mousepad every time I rebooted.

So now I know the reboot isn't exactly necessary anytime I replug or change settings, I instead just try to keep my mouse in the middle of my mousepad and move it around a bit any time it would be recalibrating. Including any time I'm starting or rebooting Windows. And I move it around a little because I found that it gives a better LOD calibration when doing so as opposed to leaving it completely stationary during the few seconds it's calibrating. I've found this method gives me 100% consistent DPI measurements of 800 (what it's set to) with my 3310 sensor.

That is just a sorry excuse in my opinion.
There is still no reason to just add a ton of DPI outside what you want.

The dpi remains the same no matter what mousepad etc I use.
It's always abit faster then any other 800dpi mouse @ 800dpi.
I can swap dpi to reset it to 800 then it goes mental again.

If I wanted a 900-1k dpi mouse I would just use that dpi.
I hate not knowing 100% that I have what I want.
Moving around the mouse etc does nothing at all, as I said swapping pads etc does nothing.

It is a useless "feature" that increased the dpi to something you don't want.
And there is no reason to actually do so, at all. Rival and Avior7k does perfect without it.
Better sensors like 3366 don't need useless features like this.

Now I HAVE To use DCU on KPM to remain at 800dpi at all times.
But I prefer having everything as raw as possible.
post #814 of 4669
so do any other sensors have this "feature"?
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post #815 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by czerro View Post

The discrepancy is approximately 50 what?

Edit: Also, I was an insane man, trolling the forum, when I noted these issues initially. That's super awesome that Jude deleted and edited all my posts via his contacts here to sell his mouse. It's almost as if someone had brought up all these issues with the finalmouse many weeks prior...
Quote:
Originally Posted by czerro View Post

The discrepancy is approximately 50 what?

Edit: Also, I was an insane man, trolling the forum, when I noted these issues initially. That's super awesome that Jude deleted and edited all my posts via his contacts here to sell his mouse. It's almost as if someone had brought up all these issues with the finalmouse many weeks prior...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivity View Post

Hence the reason SS decided to skip it and have their dpi steps stable.
Same with avior I suppose since I had 0 problems with that as with my rival regarding this.
Since it's not working they should disable it.

I'm sorry but I want 800dpi, yet my sens on my KPM is 25% faster then any 800dpi mouse I have. Which is, well stupid smile.gif

Actually, SS would do well to get in here. They could release an awesome 3090 with occluded well that it took many years to figure out until it was released in the A;cpr. They could release a 3310 with a very particular srom. Ball is kinda in their court, a company I dislike, but they should knock this out of the park.

Edit: You are not allowed to name some mice here smile.gif

Edit2: Alcor, sorry, i just gotta test this...

To anyone curious, you can actually edit the name of a product into your post after it is automatically or handily removed in some mishmash. For instance,


'm a huge fan of A;cpr, it's almost as good as an Alcor...
Edited by czerro - 3/8/15 at 3:16pm
post #816 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivity View Post

That is just a sorry excuse in my opinion.
There is still no reason to just add a ton of DPI outside what you want.

The dpi remains the same no matter what mousepad etc I use.
It's always abit faster then any other 800dpi mouse @ 800dpi.
I can swap dpi to reset it to 800 then it goes mental again.

If I wanted a 900-1k dpi mouse I would just use that dpi.
I hate not knowing 100% that I have what I want.
Moving around the mouse etc does nothing at all, as I said swapping pads etc does nothing.

It is a useless "feature" that increased the dpi to something you don't want.
And there is no reason to actually do so, at all. Rival and Avior7k does perfect without it.
Better sensors like 3366 don't need useless features like this.

Now I HAVE To use DCU on KPM to remain at 800dpi at all times.
But I prefer having everything as raw as possible.

I understand where you're coming from and of course you're entitled to your opinion. But I was saying the moving the mouse WHILE the mouse is recalibrating (the second or two right as it is powered on, when my scroll wheel LED turns on for instance) DOES make noticeable and measurable difference in the LOD for a given mousepad. Simply swapping pads won't cause the 'real' DPI to change, BUT swapping mousepads then triggering a recalibration by replugging, restarting, or changing DPI setting can cause the 'real' DPI change if the surfaces are different enough. Again, the entire point of the method that I described is that it is repeatable and gives CONSISTENT DPI measurements after every recalibration.

[Edit: Oh and not every mouse will have the same measurable 'real' DPI at the same DPI setting, even of the same manufacturer/sensor. You can't worry exactly what the 'real' DPI is and if it's spot-on the DPI setting, but rather that the 'real' DPI is always consistent. And that's the entire point of the method I was describing.]

The DPI shouldn't arbitrarily change during normal mouse movement, assuming you aren't triggering a recalibration as mentioned above. If your DPI is changing randomly without a triggered recalibration, then your mouse sensor is probably defective and you should look into RMA'ing it. But if you're moving the mouse differently, lifting it at all, or even having it a different angle on the mousepad (because some pads' texture isn't consistent for vertical/horizontal/diagonal relative mouse positioning). And I've seen plenty of people report similar isssus with Rival and Avior7k.

I think the real issue is that the recalibration is either too aggressive in making changes or there is some kind of bug where some sensors have much too dramatic calibration changes for some reason. Every mouse that flickers the power off then on when changing settings does a recalibration, they just might be much less noticeable than the 3310 seems to be. But you can surely appreciate that every surface and different DPI settings will cause the light to be reflected and/or the data to be collected and aggregated differently, hence the need for recalibration. I think the answer for 3310 sensors is to tone down the aggression with which it make recalibration changes, or find out what design elements/minor manufacturing inconsistencies/driver/firmware discrepancies cause this DPI drift much more for some people than others.
Edited by VolsAndJezuz - 3/8/15 at 3:48pm
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post #817 of 4669
Variable CPI is a silly idea to me. I mean the CPI changing based off calibration. Not sure if you can turn that off completely in the SROM. You would think for the best performance CPI/scaling should never change during calibration or there shouldn't be any calibration. Just inherent performance like older sensors. Does that means the newer sensors with calibration cannot achieve the CPI designated by array size because calibration is always determining it based off surface properties? Sounds great for surface capability, but It seems like a problematic feature...
Edited by popups - 3/8/15 at 4:07pm
post #818 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by popups View Post

Variable CPI is a silly idea to me. I mean the CPI changing based off calibration. Not sure if you can turn that off completely in the SROM. You would think for the best performance CPI/scaling should never change during calibration or there shouldn't be any calibration. Just inherent performance like older sensors. Does that means the newer sensors with calibration cannot achieve the CPI designated by array size because calibration is always determining it based off surface properties? Sounds great for surface capability, but It seems like a problematic feature...

I don't know enough about it to have an answer for your question, but to me it would make sense that manufacturers would prefer greater compatibility with all the different types of mousepads and surfaces that are common nowadays, with the sacrifice being the exact CPI per array size, because your average user is much more likely to notice poor tracking if they're using a non-'standard' mouse pad material/texture/color than they would be likely to bother or even know how to measure DPI with a program like Enotus. Just my 2 cents
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post #819 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolsAndJezuz View Post

I don't know enough about it to have an answer for your question, but to me it would make sense that manufacturers would prefer greater compatibility with all the different types of mousepads and surfaces that are common nowadays, with the sacrifice being the exact CPI per array size, because your average user is much more likely to notice poor tracking if they're using a non-'standard' mouse pad material/texture/color than they would be likely to bother or even know how to measure DPI with a program like Enotus. Just my 2 cents

I was contemplating the theoretical potential of the newer sensors without scaling and surface calibration working together. I don't think I would want the sensor to change CPI without doing it myself. Which is why I was wondering if it is an option for coders, I would think it is.
post #820 of 4669
Quote:
Originally Posted by VolsAndJezuz View Post

Yes, I watched your video and noticed that biggrin.gif

Unfortunately, your mouse grip isn't very comparable to mine in general so I wanted to hear from other large-handed Finalmouse owners
I'm guessing you use claw grip since that's the only one I didn't mention? I just tested claw grip on the FM in case there aren't any other large handers here, and it feels pretty good. I don't see any potential issues.
    
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