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Dual pump setup Question.

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
Hi Guys/Gals,

Please be kind as this is my first time planning / doing a dual pump loop.

I already have this:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-dcp-2-2-12v-dc-water-pump.html


And I am planning to buy 2 of this:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-dbay-d5-pwm-incl-pump.html


Basically I want to use 2 pumps. Ideally 1x d5 and 1x dcp 2.2 for redundancy.
But I have the option to use dual d5 but I would rather not as I could use it for another rig.

This is to cool:

4x hd7950 and 2 x e5-4650.

Rads:
4 x ek 360 xtx.

I don't want the 2 pumps to be next to each other ( correct me if I'm wrong but my thinking would be if both pumps would not be next to each other it would be more efficient as any pressure loss of water in the loop would be compensated with the other pump and also the other reservoir might possible have additional pressure from water and would go over maximum water indicator of the d5 reservoir.)

My plan ( water flow to the right ):

d5 -> 4x hd7950 -> 2x e5-4650 -> 3x 360 xtx -> dcp2.2 -> 1x360xtx -> Back again to D5



I've noticed that the D5 reservoir has a maximum line for the water. If I put that reservoir below the rads ( mountain mods ascension case ) For reference pic found on the net: http://cdn.overclock.net/c/c0/c0518e15_103_0351.jpeg
Would there be a problem say I shut off my pc and if the reservoir would be full of water?


Any suggestions / advice / comments / reaction would be appreciated as I would rather plan this correctly that redo the setup again due to me not planning correctly.


Thanks,
Paul
Edited by aerosmith9110 - 12/27/14 at 7:53pm
post #2 of 17
I would much rather have two individual loops, this will probably give the best temps to. Since you are already going to use two pumps anyways.
2 rads for each loop and you should have pretty good temps on both loops.

Since the D5 is a much more powerful pump I would advice against using it in a loop with a worse pump anyways, as this might interrupt the flow.
I only ever use D5 pumps my self, they are very strong and last for years. At most I used one pump with cpu > 2x gpu > 3 radiators > big reservoir and it worked just fine. Can't recommend the pump enough.

I am a bit confused by your post though, you say that you are going to buy two of the EK bay with the pump included, so unless that was a mistake you are already planning on getting two D5's with res. In that case sell the old pump and just use the D5's.

As for the res's being overfilled when turning of the computer should be no problem. But you want the res to be higher up than the pump, otherwise it will probably starve while filling the loop. You can take out the res and have it temp in a high place until loop is completely done bleeding and then put it in the 5.25 slots. That should work fine smile.gif

If you need anything else, feel free to PM me or respond here and I will respond as quickly as possible.
    
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post #3 of 17
Pressure anywhere in the loop depends on flow rate and no matter how many pumps you use and no matter where you put them the loop the flow rate will be the same everywhere in the loop.

Maybe if you think about it this way:
In a closed loop, the amount of water a pump will move depends on the differential pressure between it's inlet and outlet.
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post #4 of 17
I would imagine you want pumps with similar characteristics or ideally identical when running in series to prevent the larger pump from stressing out the smaller pump and killing it. You may be able to balance it by putting the smaller pump after restrictions to even up the flow between the two...

I've only every run two of the same pump in series so can't say from experience, but I wouldn't recommend using two different families in the same series loop.
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post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
go4life,

I don't want 2 individual loops cause I want redundancy. And I could well, sell the unused bnew D5 if I could use the dcp 2.2 after the restrictions as Puck mentioned. Any comments on that? I really want redundancy and not after best temp as I am about $7k + worth of hardware and don't want to risk it with just 1 faulty pump.

I would like to continue the conversation here so in the future someone might have the same question they can refer to this thread smile.gif

thanks billbartuska , Puck and go4life.
post #6 of 17
FWIW,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicr0nhunter View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat View Post

I am pretty sure Martin did some testing where 2 different pumps worked perfectly fine together.

Yep.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/26/pump-setup-series-vs-parallel/2/

Martin concluded that "running multiple pumps in one loop ... does NOT have to be the same pump. A modified DDC-1 and PMP-450(D5 Vario) work together very happily together".
post #7 of 17
Of course, in a dual pump setup, with two different pumps in series, there will be some loss in performance.

There's another wat to do it though:



With this method you can add as many pumps as you have rads and blocks.
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post #8 of 17
Why would there be a loss of performance?

Using two different pumps in series can be a problem pumping from one location to another in an open, low restriction system but closed loops it's fine. The flow rate through the loop is far lower than max flow rate of the smallest pump so it only contributes to increase total pressure and flow rate.

In a way the two pumps don't know the other are there, they just experience less pressure loss the same as if some resistance was removed.
Edited by Jakusonfire - 12/28/14 at 1:37am
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post #9 of 17
Have them in serial. dual loop is such a huge misconception. More rad space is far better than splitting them.


I have two D5 in series in the 5inch bay res pumping through 3 GPU, 2x 480mm, 2x 240mm and going out to a 1080mm rad externally. I've never once bothered to measure the flowrate, even with the Quick Disconnects I use. Do you know why? Because my temps rarely stray from ambient. Even the 5960 doesn't exceed 40c when gaming.
Edited by Silent Scone - 12/28/14 at 1:40am
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakusonfire View Post

Why would there be a loss of performance?

Using two different pumps in series can be a problem pumping from one location to another in an open, low restriction system but closed loops it's fine. The flow rate through the loop is far lower than max flow rate of the smallest pump so it only contributes to increase total pressure and flow rate.

In a way the two pumps don't know the other are there, they just experience less pressure loss the same as if some resistance was removed.
No. Look at it this way:

At 0% RPN a pump transfers no energy to the water and at 100% RPM the pump transfers 100% of its energy to the water (less losses to friction, heat, etc.).

But in a series pump setup the pumps have to run faster than, say, 25% RPM before they start adding any energy to the water since the water is already being moved by the other pump. So only when the pump runs at greater that 25% of it's RPM does it add any energy to the water. So in this example (using 25%) each pump would loose 25% of it's useful RPM range and a corresponding lower amount of energy would be added to the water. Actually, it's much more complicated, especially if the pumps have differing P-Q curves, but that;s the basic concept.

The multi pump set up I pictured avoids that problem. And also, in that set up, each added pump only "sees" the restriction of the component(s) in it's individual loop. And there ar many possibilities with that method of adding a pump, like turning a pump on or off depending on whether the cooling from it's rad is needed or not. There's also some "fancy" stuff that can be done by adding check valves and turning pumps on and off..


Edited by billbartuska - 12/28/14 at 3:16am
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