Originally Posted by Orthello
Hi Cyber , good to hear you are going to do a build - exciting stuff.Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Yes the Evap can go either orientation - horizontal should be no problem as its the pressurized refrigerant is expanding to a gas from a liquid and undersuction (compressor) in a sense once past the capillery tube . The pressurized liquid refrigerant expands in volume regardless of orientation, eventually pulled through all the same by the compressor. There will be better words to describe it , more proper words but that's the essence of it - orientation should make no difference imho.
Shelf idea sounds great , only consideration is weight of the resoiver part on that shelf , but that's dependent on hour much liquid you will buffer etc.
Chillbox is what you put your motherboard in yes . Basically a frost free freezer lol.
Well i think you have found a loophole for entry lol , seriously if you build a 24/7 liquid chiller and do the neccessary block insulation - which won't be easy to get it running 24/7 without condensation issues i'll give you honorary entry due to the effort
, i still think you would be better to build a chillbox if it was not for the ln2 / Dice stuff, the effort is almost similar to doing block insulation (its just on a larger scale) and then you get the benefit of faster hardware changes etc. Having done a lot of non chillbox insulation jobs particularly on cpus under negative temps , surviving past the 3-6 month mark without issues is tricky under regular use - smallest flaw in your insulation and gradually it will undo things.
Its all very well to bench , but a 24/7 setup needs to have very robust insulation - really robust.
The Ln2 / Dice stuff is the only thing that stops you from doing the chillbox really in conjunction with the chilled gpus , although you could still do that by making a seal in the chillbox lid and then mounting the pot through the chillbox - would take some work but could be done. GiveItUp used a dedicated phase change system for cpu in conjunction with a chillbox to benefit gpus so you could do a hybrid system. See through chillbox is just a sheet or two of perspex or glass at the top , doesn't have to be too hard. You can just use wood (painted and sealed) or plastic/acrylic and some insulation for the chillbox and away you go.
re question 1, it certainly doable to insulate your gpus without a chillbox , i would suggest it would make them not resellable however as its rather permanent coatings and dielectric grease needs to be used in parts etc. Closed cell foam / eraser / dielectric grease / an outer shell of some sort helps also . It can be done as i use to do this 5-6 years ago - but really its most likely easier long term to build the chillbox in my opinion. If you built the lid of the chillbox right you could use your dice / ln2 pot inserted into the lid with gasket around the pot etc to seal the lid and away you go. You would need very little if any insulation on the cpu then, particularly for dice.
Re (2) it would be much easier to insulate a universal block as it far smaller, the vrm cooling might suffer a bit vs a full cover block , that might need to be large heatsinks with good fan cooling . To fully insulate the card with a full cover block would be difficult just due to the size of it - could be done though i guess.
if you don't use Ln2 often this might be a consideration :
With a chillbox , setup the CPU block on a seperate 100% methanol loop then as an HX of sorts use a radiator dunked in a bath of dice.
Eg take the extreme cooling external to the chillbox rather than through it with it piping and blocks rather than through the lid with the pot. Methanol freezes at -96c , it would need some pumping power however. Another method of this could be do away with the radiator and pump dice cooled methanol directly to cpu block and back . This would not get a cold as straight dice via pot but would not be very far at all i would think.
Dry Ice and Methanol , good for -70c here :
If you did that method when you finish with the dry ice simply hook the cpu back to you main liquid loop , no need to change anything inside the chillbox.
The above is just some ideas , if you do a REALLY good job of the insulation it could be faster to just insulate the GPUs / CPUs blocks etc without chillbox. I would think though seriously the GPUs / mobos etc won't be able to be resold later so if you don't mind that then that's no issue then but with a chillbox you could easily resell your gear after use. Its another aspect if you go through a lot of hardware.
Anyway keep the questions coming and hopefully some pics in time to come
Hey thanks for the tips
. So I wanted to fill in some of the things I have figured out, and also ask a few more questions.
To the shelf, The shelve system I will be using is industrial grade (not the walmart ones
) is shelf is rated to hold up to 600lbs and the casters are rated at 1200lbs. That said not sure how much I would trust those numbers. However even with a 10 gal buffer I am only at 120 pounds cold maybe a little more but anyway still well within 600lbs
Ya the LN2/ Dice stuff is a concern however so is the bench, This will still be a test bench as well for testing components that are having issues. Quick access and ability to swap on the fly is a major concern. Though it will have builds on it that are semi permanent (1-3 months at a time) swapping all the time needs to be considered and a Chill box wouldn't allow that as easily.
Okay so for a CPU insulated block I had an idea that I want to run by everyone here and get input
. So the CPU block I have decided on is this
There is also a silver model (sterling silver base
) although I will most likely go with full copper. I will modify a back plate, either its back plate, or a universal one (as I think they are larger). To have posts just like a LN2/Dice or Phase.
For my insulation of the block
. If you look closely most of the height of the actual block is above the mounting plate its not flush like most are, and it is semi round unlike the Supremacy Evo (I am still considering the Supremacy EVO though with some modification (Rounding the corners myself).
So the plan is to Epoxy the retention plate down to the block, use thermally insinuating silicon rubber around the bottom of plate around the base. This should seal the base and insulate all copper on the bottom, aside from the flat surface.
Top side, I am going to Epoxy the fittings down to the block they will be permanent, Ideally they will be g 1/4 male to 3/8 male adapters that will then have copper/brass supply line acting as the tube. If that wont work out due to fitting size I will go with long barbs and Tygon held with Worm Drives. I will then build a partition around the block and fill it a few inches high with Silicon rubber, this will insulate the top of the block and the fittings and some of the tube.
Top Continued I will put armaflex over the tubes down to the silicon and use silicon to fill the small gaps, and seal the armaflex in. I will then take a bigger piece of armaflex and this will go over both tubes. I will then smear a thing layer of silicon over the sides of the block to add a little more insulation as well as help secure the armaflex. I will follow this up with some epoxy on the outside to mate it to the retention plate so that it will not move. I will then heat shrink a section of the armaflex going up from the retention plate. This will just be to ensure tightness around the block. I will put sleeving over the entire tube and more heat shrink to keep it in place.
If you haven't got the idea that I am portraying it will look exactly like a phase change Evap head. In theory and during my testing I will ensure it, The only area that will frost at all is the copper flat base that will touch the CPU. If I notice frost anywhere else during testing I will tear it down and do it again until it can run for several hours frost free.
I will do the same thing with 3 universal GPU blocks, all blocks will be parallel so it will allow the sleeve to go quite far.
The board will be insulated just like with phase change minus the Dialectical grease as I do not feel that is necessary for builds that will spend a month or 2 at most on the build, There fore as with LN2 cooling the board will be full cleanable and sell able after the fact (I will still fully disclose what it was used for). Honestly it will be for all intents and purposes a quad head phase change unit
or at least it will look like one but alot cheaper.
Full discloser Ideally I would want a triple cascade Direct Die, and a water chiller for GPUs, but alas the prices of Direct Die systems are extreme, I cant justify the prices. The issue is not with things like the compressor as I know those are expensive. More so while my looking I found Evap heads and I find 100 dollar for the head semi reasonable then they want 170 for the plexi mount though, no thats just stupid.
Does anyone know a machinist that can craft custom water blocks? If I could obtain a custom made water block that resembles that of a phase change evap that would be perfect.Edited by Cyber Locc - 1/16/16 at 9:56pm