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[WCCF] AMD Fiji XT R9 390X Leaked For The Third Time On Zauba – 20nm Looks Promising - Page 8

post #71 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Looks like that puny bus on the GTX970 is also hurting its performance at 4k as well. It is a whole 3% slower than a 290X! How can Nvidia let something like that out into the wild? rolleyes.gif

Sorry bud, those numbers are clearly wrong, I must have posted a biased false review.

It's not possible for the 980 to be faster than a 290X, because the 290X has 320 GB/s bandwidth, while the 980 only has 224 GB/s. Since nothing but bandwidth matters, the review I posted is clearly wrong. I will be sure to contact the editor, ask them to take it down, and have them write an apology to AMD for spreading misinformation.

From here on out, we shall ignore the Architecture, Core Count, ROP's, and all those other irrelevancies.
Edited by 2010rig - 1/12/15 at 1:50pm
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post #72 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Can you point to some benches where the 770 is faster than the 980 at ANY resolution. That Kepler sounds amazing.

Hint: Higher is better.



Oh look, the 980 is almost as fast as a 690, which is made up of 2 680's, which are both faster than a single 770.

How is it even possible for someone to come up with such a thought? Oh that's right, the 980 was made with a mid-range chip, while the 770 was made with a mid-range chip, with less cores, and weaker architecture.
Obviously the only way where it could maybe very much maybe be possible is in a double precision showdown. The reason for this would be a 1/24 rate on the GK104 versus a 1/32 rate on the GM204. And even that I very much doubt since the huge gain the GM204 was over GK104. Besides that double precision doesn't even matter for (most) normal people thumb.gif
post #73 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Sorry bud, those numbers are clearly wrong, I must have posted a biased false review.

It's not possible for the 980 to be faster than a 290X, because the 290X has 320 GB/s bandwidth, while the 980 only has 224 GB/s. Since nothing but bandwidth matters, the review I posted is clearly wrong. I will be sure to contact the editor, ask them to take it down, and have them write an apology to AMD for spreading misinformation.

From here on out, we shall ignore the Architecture, Core Count, ROP's, and all those other irrelevancies.

LOL... I was agreeing you. I thought my sarcasm was easily detected. thumb.gif

Maxwell totally threw out the whole more bandwidth wins myth.
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post #74 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

LOL... I was agreeing you. I thought my sarcasm was easily detected. thumb.gif

Maxwell totally threw out the whole more bandwidth wins myth.

LOL, I laid the sarcasm a little too thick on that one. See below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupl3xxx View Post

Long post incoming.
The 980 is literally designed to dominate at 1920x1080. It isn't designed to work at 4K at all. It isn't designed to handle surround-gaming. It's for 1920x1080 and 1920x1080 only, and at 1920x1080 it's untouchable (at this time). Increase the resolution and even the R9 290 and the 770 will win. This is why a lot of people are (rightfully) calling the 980 a mid-end card; it is.
I have no idea what you where trying yo calculate here. The Fiji (R9 390x) is estimated to have a memory bandwidth of 550GB/s++. The R9 290X has a bandwidth of 320GB/s, the 780ti 336GB/s and the 980 224GB/s. This is what matters. It doesn't matter if its 256b, 512 or 4096 bit wide, all that matters (for absolute performance) is the raw bandwidth. From a power-performance point of view, you want a wide and slow buss, but that increases the complexity of the PCB a lot, and that drives the BoM up. HBM reduces the added cost a lot.

In the end, AMD was already more than ready to launch a GPU with HBM, and 20nm wouldn't work with that at all, see the Fudzilla article above, but they had to make it work at 28nm, so they did. Launching with both HBM and 16nm was considered to large of a gamble, so they had no choice. It was 28nm + HBM or no new cards at all.
Really? That is a lot lower estimate that every other realistic estimate I have seen. Most hover around the 40% -> 60% increase in performance over the R9 290X. And as far as the 980 goes, if you dare go to a resolution over 2560x1600 it crumbles. It's simply starved of bandwidth. A R9 290X is equal to the 980 at 4K despite the 980 running circles around the R9 290X at 1920x1080. For memory on a GPU, it's not about the GBs, it's about the GB/s wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Obviously the only way where it could maybe very much maybe be possible is in a double precision showdown. The reason for this would be a 1/24 rate on the GK104 versus a 1/32 rate on the GM204. And even that I very much doubt since the huge gain the GM204 was over GK104. Besides that double precision doesn't even matter for (most) normal people thumb.gif

Yeah, that would be the only stretch, but even then, 980 wins. Go figure. Must be the bandwidth. biggrin.gif

Besides, the whole compute argument only holds water when Fermi is involved.


Edited by 2010rig - 1/12/15 at 3:10pm
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post #75 of 150
I lol'd because I imagined 2010's avatar saying his reply while making that face.

960! Get here sooner so we can end all this madness!!biggrin.gif
Hoping for leaks this week. (Validated/trustworthy)

Edit: I just realized, I'm on the wrong thread. I thought this was the 960 thread.
Edited by darkreize - 1/12/15 at 2:14pm
post #76 of 150
Gonna laugh when Duplexxx replies saying he meant 780 and just typo'd.
post #77 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkreize View Post

I lol'd because I imagined 2010's avatar saying his reply while making that face.

960! Get here sooner so we can end all this madness!!biggrin.gif
Hoping for leaks this week. (Validated/trustworthy)

It was a post just like that one, that inspired me to find that Avatar to give a proper response. wink.gif

Her face said it all, and does it time and time again to this day. lol
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post #78 of 150
From maximumpc.com

Games tested: Tomb Raider, Metro: Last Light, Batman: Arkham Origins, Hitman: Absolution, Unigine Valley, Unigine Heaven, 3DMark Firestrike.
GPUs: 980, 970, 780ti, 780, 290X

2560x1600 (4MP)
1 GPU:
980 "wins": 3
780ti "wins": 2
290X "wins":1
one tie 980-780ti

2 GPUs:
980 "wins": 3
780ti "wins": 4
290X "wins":0

Link: http://www.maximumpc.com/nvidia_geforce_gtx_980_review2014?page=0,2
___

Games tested: Tomb Raider, Metro: Last Light, Batman: Arkham Origins, Hitman: Absolution, Unigine Valley, Unigine Heaven.
3840x2160 (8.3MP)
1 GPU:
980 "wins": 1
780ti "wins": 2
290X "wins":1
2 ties 780-780ti

2 GPUs:
980 "wins": 2
780ti "wins": 1
290X "wins":2
780 "wins": 1

R9 295X2 score ignored (no Titan Z to compare)

Link: http://www.maximumpc.com/nvidia_geforce_gtx_980_review2014?page=0,3

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 View Post

umm, I find that hard to believe that Nvidias latest flagship is slower than it's previous the 780ti or 770 @ 4K. Almost all the latest 4K benchmarks I have seen the 980 is mostly higher than any other Nvidia or Amd card, even if it is only by a frame or two.

Can you please give me links to some evidence or information which proves your claim. Some benchmarks perhaps or any other tangible evidence and if your claim is true, I will sell both my MSI 980 Gaming cards tommorow and purchase which ever other dual card setup is besting it @ 4k since I am only gaming @ this res.

Proof provided. However, don't sell your cards and buy new ones now. The difference is, as you said, almost always single-digit FPS. AMD and nvidia will realise new "real" top-end cards Q2. I was wrong asbout the 290 and the 770 winning though. The 290X and the 780ti still wins in some benchmarks at 2560x1600 and 3840x2160. At 1920x1080 the 980 dominates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post

And it isn't even visible because of how small an extra delay it is against the screen refresh. Next topic?

This is a very significant point. The smoother the frame-times is, the better it is. It's the reason why single GPU is still better than multi GPU. Added latency (one frame per GPU) and more stutter (uneven amount of time between frames). This is also a factor that is sometimes worse on the 980 than the 780ti and the 290X. I don't know why, this is something nvidia knows how to do. But it's there, and it shouldn't be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSlayer View Post

980 being worse than the 290. Okay, you're full of crap. 980 worse than the 770? Seriously what are you smoking.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop-gpus/geforce-gtx-980
"Not designed to work at 4k at all" has since been determined to be false. You'd think a company debuting and marketing DSR, driver based super sampling, would want it to be better than the 770 at 4k.

Wow, resorting to an insult instead of proving me wrong, you sure are smart! /s. How up-scaling (not something new at all) relates to this is beyond me. It's simply a way to use the "leftover" power when running less demanding games to improve the visual appearance. I have provided sources for my claims. I can't seem to find yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSlayer View Post


Absolute bandwidth figures started mattering a lot less as Fiji will and Maxwell does have compression, so the effective bandwidth is greater than what the numbers show.

980 worse than the 290 at 4k. The shills aren't even trying at this point...
Yay another shill showed up, and you brought a friend how cute biggrin.gif.

PS cherry pick harder broski! Have any relevant reviews with more recent drivers and not cherry picked results?

Edit: if you're confused I wrote this post last to first post.

Please, misquote me harder if you can. /s

If you read what I wrote, and what I replied to, you would realize that I wasn't talking about how memory-bandwidth is affecting total GPU score, just that how that bandwidth is delivered is irrelevant for absolute performance. Half the width with twice the speed is the same raw bandwidth.

Compression will help a little, but that takes precious "core" cycles. This lowers "core" performance somewhat. How significant that is I do not know. Time will tell.

In addition, I looked up the definition of "shill", and I don't know what you think, but I'm not one. And how you would argue for that, considering I'm saying that both AMD and nvidia are better than nvidia is beyond me. If I said that only AMD or only nvidia was better you might make sense. But I don't care for what brand you choose, as long as it's an educated choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

You got the fastest cards available. Not sure what that guy was smoking...lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow85 View Post

Lol yes I was thinking the same thing, whatever he is smoking I want some too!

Again, cheap joke on the expense of me, not adding anything to the thread or discussion. This is realy impressive, and shows of your great intellect. /s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

I asked him to show me some concrete evidence and since he hasnt returned with any Im assuming he is having a hard time to find it, probably because it does not exist.

Or, I have more to fill my time with than just browsing Overclock.net all the time. And considering it's hardly 24h since my last post, I haven't been "gone". I have been busy.

And I didn't have a hard time at all. I googled "980 benchmark". So yeah, it probably doesn't exist. I even provided links back to the exacte pages to the article that doesn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

It's not possible for the 980 to be faster than a 290X, because the 290X has 320 GB/s bandwidth, while the 980 only has 224 GB/s. Since nothing but bandwidth matters, the review I posted is clearly wrong. I will be sure to contact the editor, ask them to take it down, and have them write an apology to AMD for spreading misinformation.

From here on out, we shall ignore the Architecture, Core Count, ROP's, and all those other irrelevancies.

I don't know how you read that from my comment unless you tried really hard to read it wrong and out of context. Anyway, if you read what I wrote, and what I replied to, you would realize that I wasn't talking about how memory-bandwidth is affecting total GPU score, just that how that bandwidth is delivered is irrelevant for absolute performance. Half the width with twice the speed is the same raw bandwidth.

And as far as how memory bandwidth affects GPU performance, it matters not how said bandwidth is provided, as long as it's enough to feed the GPU.

Now, if we could get back on topic and all continue proving every "news" article that tries to tell us that the next AMD or nvidia GPU will be made at TSMCs 20nm node wrong, that would be great!

EDIT
As there have been quite a few post since I started typing this one, I will respond to the additional posts.

2010rig, I will take the libery of moving the bold part of your quote one sentence. Perhaps then you will be able to read the meaning of it.
Quote:
The R9 290X has a bandwidth of 320GB/s, the 780ti 336GB/s and the 980 224GB/s. This is what matters. It doesn't matter if its 256b, 512 or 4096 bit wide, all that matters (for absolute performance) is the raw bandwidth.
Quote:
For memory on a GPU, it's not about the GBs, it's about the GB/s wink.gif

I don't know why you bolded this part, as it's been known for long that the amount of RAM on a GPU isn't nearly as important as the bandwidth. I'm sure if you take a 4GB GPU vs a 8GB gpu with 80% of the memory bandwidth it will preform worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangey View Post

Gonna laugh when Dupl3xxx replies saying he meant 780 and just typo'd.

You laugh at people that admit to making mistakes? The only people that won't admit mistakes are ass-holes and/or narcissists. I can be wrong, I am only human. Also, you typed my nick wrong. Should I laugh at you now? It doesn't seem like a very kind thing to do..?
Edited by Dupl3xxx - 1/12/15 at 2:28pm
post #79 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupl3xxx View Post

I don't know how you read that from my comment unless you tried really hard to read it wrong and out of context. Anyway, if you read what I wrote, and what I replied to...
--snip--

I see that you were mistaken. It's all good. thumb.gif
Edited by 2010rig - 1/12/15 at 3:14pm
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post #80 of 150
Nice one 770 superior to a 980 i think it's too early for april's fool day but still it's a good one biggrin.gif
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