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[QZ] These BMW laser headlights were the coolest things we saw at CES - Page 5

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetplane48 View Post

Yeah, or if you want a real car, stick with a GTR or even an STI. BMWs are notorious for overpriced maintenance fees on their vehicles.

Says overpriced maintenance fees and lists a GTR thumb.gif
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post #42 of 58
I found that funny as well. If you don't like stealership prices, go to an Indy shop. there are plenty of small shops that specialize in BMWs/other euro cars. I usually just DIY.
 
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post #43 of 58
Love the headlamps. The cost, though expected, is not something that I would look forward to. It's funny to see the shots traded between American muscle and imports in this thread. I work at a Ford dealership and honestly would never own another one after some of the crap I see. I'm sure this is the same thing anyone who works in this field will say about what they work with on a daily basis. There is a Tesla repair center just down the road though and honestly that's what I would love to have. I'd take that over a Shelby any day, but they are two different camps so I guess it comes down to preference and where you are at in life.
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post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by L D4WG View Post

Heh i think people would much rather this than a WRX STI tongue.gif

The GTR is great for speed but what else?

GTRs handle notoriously well. although id prefer an R34 Vspec II Nur model over the standard Vspec II as the nur model is made to european standards, so even higher quality parts off the showroom floor
Edited by PCSarge - 1/13/15 at 11:20am
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post #45 of 58
Amazing technology. I also liked an idea on one of the comments of the video on youtube. Auto tinting windshield or something similar to dampen the incoming headlights to make sure you see the road clearly. Both systems could work together because you never know if the headlight will malfunction and not cancel light for the incoming car on the opposite lane. Laser instead of normal lights, is a lot more dangerous for your eyes.
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post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

Well that's your opinion, and while you're entitled to it, it certainly seems to be lacking in common sense / logic.
I would very much like you to explain how a different light source makes an illumination system pointless.

It's not opinion, and it has nothing to do with common sense and logic. It has to do with the physics of how light sources work, and how lasers are different from things that aren't lasers.

If you really would like me to explain it, and aren't just being sarcastic, here goes:

By putting a phosphor in front of a laser, you lose all of the traits of the laser and replace them with those of the phosphor. A laser is coherent, and has a narrow output that is highly intense. Run a laser beam into a phosphor, and you lose coherence (arguably better to not have it in this application), and the output becomes broad and the intensity in any particular direction is dramatically reduced. It's no different than having a standard blue LED behind a phosphor, which means that aside from the OHMYGODLASERSPEWPEW buzzword, you don't actually accomplish anything by using a laser. Except it's more expensive and harder to design and implement.

That's all fine and good, and I can accept it as just flashy marketspeak for a CES concept showing. Except they seem to imply that it's the laser aspect of the headlights that allows for the large increase in range. If that's really the case, then I go back to my prior comment, which was that I would be intrigued to know how they were accomplishing that using a white source. If they are running it through a phosphor, then I'd want to know how they're maintaining the laserlike qualities that allow for the increase in range. It'd be even more interesting if they weren't using phosphors.

For the record, lasers are not inherently dangerous. At high power, sure, but considering normal headlights can be bright enough to "blind" drivers, lasers that are legitimately dangerous and would actually blind drivers would never be used. Fortunately, there's a lot of room between "too dim to be useful" and "causes blindness." A relatively low-intensity beam would be eyesafe, yet still do a good job of lighting up a road at night.
Edited by Mand12 - 1/13/15 at 12:04pm
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

It's not opinion, and it has nothing to do with common sense and logic. It has to do with the physics of how light sources work, and how lasers are different from things that aren't lasers.

If you really would like me to explain it, and aren't just being sarcastic, here goes:

By putting a phosphor in front of a laser, you lose all of the traits of the laser and replace them with those of the phosphor. A laser is coherent, and has a narrow output that is highly intense. Run a laser beam into a phosphor, and you lose coherence (arguably better to not have it in this application), and the output becomes broad and the intensity in any particular direction is dramatically reduced. It's no different than having a standard blue LED behind a phosphor, which means that aside from the OHMYGODLASERSPEWPEW buzzword, you don't actually accomplish anything by using a laser. Except it's more expensive and harder to design and implement.

That's all fine and good, and I can accept it as just flashy marketspeak for a CES concept showing. Except they seem to imply that it's the laser aspect of the headlights that allows for the large increase in range. If that's really the case, then I go back to my prior comment, which was that I would be intrigued to know how they were accomplishing that using a white source. If they are running it through a phosphor, then I'd want to know how they're maintaining the laserlike qualities that allow for the increase in range. It'd be even more interesting if they weren't using phosphors.

you really are biased against understanding what's going on here, aren't you? I'd suggest you watch their presentation where they go through and explain WHY they did it the way they did.


I put the things you don't want in red. coherence and narrow beam (i.e. laser beam) are not aspects that are desirable in a headlight. I already said this. We're trying to light up area, not shoot down missiles. This is a third lighting system that is stuffed in along with two normal-ish headlights. it has to be packaged in and around a more conventional lighting system.

Can you name ONE commercially viable in-production lighting system that doesn't use phosphors, and isn't an arc lamp or incandescent?
 
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post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

you really are biased against understanding what's going on here, aren't you?

Not really, but you certainly seem to have a stake in making me look bad, regardless of what I actually am saying.

Quote:
I put the things you don't want in red. coherence and narrow beam (i.e. laser beam) are not aspects that are desirable in a headlight. I already said this. We're trying to light up area, not shoot down missiles. This is a third lighting system that is stuffed in along with two normal-ish headlights. it has to be packaged in and around a more conventional lighting system.

I addressed coherence. I agree that it's not desirable in an illumination system. You're trying to say I said something when I said the opposite, and then accuse me of being biased against understanding what's going on?

The narrow beam is explicitly shown, as the thing that allows you to get useful irradiance at 650 yards. It's required. A broader beam wouldn't have the irradiance required at that distance. This is a simple radiometry problem - in order to have useful irradiance at that distance with a broader beam, you'd have to have them be way, way too bright close up.
Quote:
Can you name ONE commercially viable in-production lighting system that doesn't use phosphors, and isn't an arc lamp or incandescent?

And here is where you show just who's lacking the understanding: I never said that phosphors are bad, or shouldn't be used. What I said was that if you use phosphors, you lose everything about a laser that makes it a laser and not just an LED. It's the laser that's pointless, not the phosphor.

Try understanding things yourself before you start criticizing.
post #49 of 58
You keep saying the laser is pointless because phosphors are in use. I say you're 100% wrong. lasers provide a focused, directional output that the use of phosphors do not make irrelevant.
and fwiw the lasers they're using are LEDs. it's a packaging and internal/radiated efficiency thing.

I'm pretty sure the design process wasn't like this:
manager: Build me laser headlights!!
engineers: *sigh* OK fine.

but more like this:
manager: build me a better headlight
engineers: "hey check out what we can pull off if we use lasers!"

http://jalopnik.com/5849150/first-look-at-bmws-new-laser-headlights/
Quote:
BMW says its real motivation is energy conservation; lasers can produce about 70% more light per watt than an LED unit
how is that benefit eliminated?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=745834
Quote:
* The laser system is based around a high-luminance solid-state point-source, used to excite a remote yellow phosphor. BMW employs a high-power multi-mode blue laser diode

* Light emitting surface that's said to be 100 times smaller than that of the blue chip in high-power white pc-LEDs

*Can reach up to 3000 candela per square millimeter, at least 10 times better than LEDs

*Compliments the performance of the existing high-power white pc-LED-based illumination modules. The LEDs generate the "background" in the intensity distribution pattern, while the high-luminance point source adds a more focused spot of collimated light at a greater distance, considerably increasing the driver's visibility range.

* Combining high-power pc-LED's of 60-100 candela per sq. mm. with new laser based white point-source capable of over 500 candela per sq. mm. allows for the range of visibility to be extended to the regulated maximum.
* The unit is small and compact, incredible high-beam range that does not require a large headlamp, instead it comes from a small reflector, benefits being less weight and added design flexibility, also better for aerodynamics
*High efficacy, with a better ratio of power input to light output reducing power consumption
*The laser-light high beam booster only activates over a certain speed and only after the LED high-beams are on, for safety reasons.
*Another safety feature, since the point source uses Class 4 laser diodes, any evidence of the onset of failure results in an automatic shut-down of the system, so there is no leaking of light.

Edited by u3b3rg33k - 1/13/15 at 1:01pm
 
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post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by u3b3rg33k View Post

You keep saying the laser is pointless because phosphors are in use. I say you're 100% wrong. lasers provide a focused, directional output that the use of phosphors do not make irrelevant.

And phosphors take whatever light is hitting them, absorb it, and emit new light. That emittance pattern is determined by the phosphor, not by the light that hits it.

You can say I'm 100% wrong. You can say anything. Unless you have some evidence you can show me proving otherwise, what you say doesn't matter. Physics matters, and the physics of phosphors means they work a certain way.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure the design process wasn't like this:
manager: Build me laser headlights!!
engineers: *sigh* OK fine.

but more like this:
manager: build me a better headlight
engineers: "hey check out what we can pull off if we use lasers!"

As someone who's an optical engineer, I will tell you that the first kind of conversation can and does happen.
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