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[videocardz] AMD to launch 300W GPU with High-Bandwidth-Memory - Page 34

post #331 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvidia Fanboy View Post

A lot of those AMD users arguing the 680 and 970/980 are high end cards just don't want to admit that Nvidia is using their midrange cards to compete effectively against AMD's high end cards.

On the flip side, I guess they do kind of have a point in regards to the performance and price. If a product is one of the best in performance and also one of the highest in price, is it considered a high end product even if we know the guts of it are midrange? If Honda released a magical Civic with a 4 cylinder engine that somehow competed with Ferrari in acceleration, handling, and speed and also costs as much as a Ferrari, would we still consider that Civic to be a midrange product? I dunno, I'm just rambling.

really? GTX 980 is less than 10% smaller than R9 290X...

So basically R9 290X was midrange against 530mm^2 GTX 780Ti?

I think that *80 or *80Ti is high end also *90/X is high end. - single GPU
Edited by Themisseble - 1/14/15 at 10:22am
post #332 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

then everyone with gk110,GCN,sandy bridge or Ivy bridge should upgrade to Gm204 and haswell because both are more efficient for the same price and a 10% improvement

If you are buying now, there is absolutely no reason to go with older, lower performance hardware at the same price. Upgrading is an entirely different story, and whether it's worth it depends on each individual person's priorities and expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I think the 900 series is a great example of what keeping a particular node for a longer time can do.

As you mention, the pricing did come down and more in line with the old days. That is because the matured fab, and the manufacturer willing to extend those "savings" to us, offering great performance for the dollar. Which is a benefit of sticking with something for multiple years, like they were forced to do in this situation.

So, I guess the question is. Do we want them to fully mature a process and get to the pricing we have for the 900 series now? Or do we want them to march ahead, with new technologies that are difficult to pull off, and get the "Mid range at flagship pricing" thing that people like to.....fuss about?

One or the other these days I suppose.

Then again, ignoring those of us foolish enough to upgrade like we do, even at the "Mid range at flagship pricing" they are still good buys. Most people keep their cards several years before moving on.

The GM204 is cheaper to manufacture than GK110. In addition to a smaller die, you can get away with a smaller PCB, a less robust VRM section, etc. Everything is cheaper on the 980 as compared to the 780.
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post #333 of 772
I think power consumption is a consideration, obviously less is better as with noise. Price and performance are the biggest considerations for consumers and it will be interesting to see how the new cards from AMD and nvidia effect prices, will they drop prices or simply price the new cards above the current top performers?

I see what some of you guys are saying about the GTX 980 being mid range, when the new AMD and nvidia cards come out it might be more of a mid range fit, but only if they drop the price...

Maybe they should've called it the GTX 950 or 960 but then they might've had a harder time making people part with their cash. So we have the AMD 380X and 390X, waht are the new nvidia cards going to be? GTX 1070 and 1080?
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post #334 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

really? GTX 980 is less than 10% smaller than R9 290X...

So basically R9 290X was midrange against 530mm^2 GTX 780Ti?

I think that *80 or *80Ti is high end also *90/X is high end. - single GPU

Technically, Tonga and the gtx 980 are closer in Die size than the gtx 980 and hawaii. Its a few mm2 but the yields of the gtx 980 should be closers to that of a tonga sized chip since the transistor density of the gtx 980 is alot lower than hawaii.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2609/radeon-r9-285.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2621/geforce-gtx-980.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2397/radeon-r9-290.html

In some ways, prior to the 290x series AMD was trying to compete with nvidia's highend with a midrange size of their own. They were mostly successful because they neglected the compute abilities of their cards. 290x was really the first time they went with a kind of big die strategy.

If AMD didn't drop the ball with the 7970 series performance, the gtx 680 wouldn't have been priced at 499. That's certain. No way should a die under 300mm2 cost the price of a high highend series.

The gxx04 series has always been nvidia's midrange. Its Nvidia being less competitive than usual that allows it to have flagship pricing.
Edited by tajoh111 - 1/14/15 at 10:44am
post #335 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding Chavez View Post

I think power consumption is a consideration, obviously less is better as with noise. Price and performance are the biggest considerations for consumers and it will be interesting to see how the new cards from AMD and nvidia effect prices, will they drop prices or simply price the new cards above the current top performers?

I see what some of you guys are saying about the GTX 980 being mid range, when the new AMD and nvidia cards come out it might be more of a mid range fit, but only if they drop the price...

Maybe they should've called it the GTX 950 or 960 but then they might've had a harder time making people part with their cash. So we have the AMD 380X and 390X, waht are the new nvidia cards going to be? GTX 1070 and 1080?

Historically nVidia has released their big chips before the mid-sized and small chips, all in one generation. Now nVidia is releasing the mid-sized and small chips before the big chips, releasing the mid-sized ones as top performers, and giving them two different generations in terms of naming.
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post #336 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

Technically, Tonga and the gtx 980 are closer in Die size than the gtx 980 and hawaii. Its a few mm2 but the yields of the gtx 980 should be closers to that of a tonga sized chip since the transistor density of the gtx 980 is alot lower than hawaii.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2609/radeon-r9-285.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2621/geforce-gtx-980.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2397/radeon-r9-290.html

In some ways, prior to the 290x series AMD was trying to compete with nvidia's highend with a midrange size of their own. They were mostly successful because they neglected the compute abilities of their cards. 290x was really the first time they went with a kind of big die strategy.

If AMD didn't drop the ball with the 7970 series performance, the gtx 680 wouldn't have been priced at 499. That's certain. No way should a die under 300mm2 cost the price of a high highend series.

The gxx04 series has always been nvidia's midrange. Its Nvidia being less competitive than usual that allows it to have flagship pricing.

That tonga is not full chip. again check at transistors.

tonga 5000
GTX 980 5200

4%?

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2398/radeon-r9-280x.html R9 280X 4300 trans

check this
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/189034-amd-radeon-r9-285-review-the-gcn-1-2-torpedo-that-takes-out-nvidias-gtx-760

R9 285 can same Gflops as R9 280... with little lower clocks.
Edited by Themisseble - 1/14/15 at 10:51am
post #337 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Historically nVidia has released their big chips before the mid-sized and small chips, all in one generation. Now nVidia is releasing the mid-sized and small chips before the big chips, releasing the mid-sized ones as top performers, and giving them two different generations in terms of naming.

Releasing mid range actually makes sense as a business. They have costs tied up in the development of the product and want to recover that as soon as possible. Releasing a product targeted at a wider audience is going to help them recover those costs sooner, as they potential market is larger.

Frankly, the only reason the high end exists for us is because it helps them sell their mid range and lower end products. By being able to claim the "Performance Crown", they can advertise being the "Best" and all that jazz. Can't do that without at least one flagship.
    
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post #338 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacGTX View Post

then everyone with gk110,GCN,sandy bridge or Ivy bridge should upgrade to Gm204 and haswell because both are more efficient for the same price and a 10% improvement

haswell is diminishing returns if you have an equivalent sandy/ivy cpu and is GM204 isn't an upgrade for GK110 owners. like AMD said, you can't play games with efficiency.
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post #339 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Releasing mid range actually makes sense as a business. They have costs tied up in the development of the product and want to recover that as soon as possible. Releasing a product targeted at a wider audience is going to help them recover those costs sooner, as they potential market is larger.

Frankly, the only reason the high end exists for us is because it helps them sell their mid range and lower end products. By being able to claim the "Performance Crown", they can advertise being the "Best" and all that jazz. Can't do that without at least one flagship.

I'm not arguing that it's bad business practice, I know it's good for nVidia. It's bad for us as consumers in that we pay more.
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post #340 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themisseble View Post

That tonga is not full chip. again check at transistors.

tonga 5000
GTX 980 5200

4%?

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2398/radeon-r9-280x.html R9 280X 4300 trans

check this
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/189034-amd-radeon-r9-285-review-the-gcn-1-2-torpedo-that-takes-out-nvidias-gtx-760

R9 285 can same Gflops as R9 280... with little lower clocks.

That's just more evidence that the gtx 980 is midrange.

Tonga is undoubtedly midrange. And with the transistor density being so similar, tongas performance should get really close the gtx 980s. But it isn't.

Even if we consider the cutdown, the gtx 970 is likely more cutdown than the r9 285 considering it has less shaders enabled and there is a giant gulf in performance between them at 50%.

Hopefully AMD has something special coming. While Nvidia has been making record profit at 28nm generation, AMD has generally been surviving off console revenue. With Console revenue peaking this quarter according to AMD, they are going to need their other revenue generator, GPU sales, back.
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