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[Netflix] The Misconception About Internet Fast Lanes - Page 5

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

A lot of us smaller guys don't bother with rolling out new pricing structures to all the individual customers for the following reasons....

  • Man power.
  • Cost of notification.
  • Customers complain we are "soliciting" them - or are otherwise the rudest people.


E-mail used to work, back in the day when you had an e-mail with your ISP almost exclusively. It was an easy way to just drop a mass e-mail to all customers to notify them of things, but now everyone runs a third party offering (which is perfectly fine if I do say so myself), so that is out.

Use twitter like your sig biggrin.gif
Code:
@Postal Hey guys 1Gbps internet now available in oregon
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post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftstealth View Post

Use twitter like your sig biggrin.gif
Code:
@Postal Hey guys 1Gbps internet now available in oregon

The funny thing is, we can do Gigabit services, it is expensive as hell, but Gigabit RF exists.
    
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post #43 of 72
I understand how this all works, the congestion, the management of it, the infrastructure. My question is this: Sure, certain people and applications eat up more bandwidth than others. Why would you charge them more? For the management of network congestion?

Here's the other side of that. Why are you promising and selling more bandwidth than you have the capability of providing? Because you can, that's why. And that's wrong.

I've literally told my ISP on multiple occasions that I don't want to hear their excuses about why my speed is 5% of what I pay for at certain times. IDGAF about who's using too much and why. You sold me a service, provide it.

This isn't an attack on all ISPs, just on the way service is oversold.
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post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

I understand how this all works, the congestion, the management of it, the infrastructure. My question is this: Sure, certain people and applications eat up more bandwidth than others. Why would you charge them more? For the management of network congestion?

Here's the other side of that. Why are you promising and selling more bandwidth than you have the capability of providing? Because you can, that's why. And that's wrong.

I've literally told my ISP on multiple occasions that I don't want to hear their excuses about why my speed is 5% of what I pay for at certain times. IDGAF about who's using too much and why. You sold me a service, provide it.

This isn't an attack on all ISPs, just on the way service is oversold.

No ISP in their right mind would promise a speed. That is just straight up something people have a tendency to fabricate in their minds, all speeds have always been and will (for the foreseeable future) be an "Up to". Why? Because once you leave the ISPs respective network, there is nothing they can do to help you and can't promise anything.

It isn't a situation of we don't want to promise, it is that we literally can't. While we control deployment on our network, we don't control it outside of networks, and we can't control what happens on our own networks in micro fashion. The moment you "promise" a service to someone, you open yourself up to serious legal implications if you can't deliver for ANY reason.

That is why a fiber back-haul with an SLA that has a 99.99% up-time costs THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS per month. Notice how even that ultra expensive SLA'ed contract service isn't even 100%? ISPs can't even get our major fiber providers to "promise" anything, thus we can't even "promise" to our own customers...

Technology isn't forgiving enough to do that. People are also stupid quick to sue, the conditions to do it aren't possible.
    
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post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

no, no it isn't a good reason.

Why not?

If your program is more popular than all of these other ones, why not charge your business more money in order to keep up said popularity?

Just sayin' it's not a FAIR reason, but money is what drives the planet...And still if you had someone using something of yours that often, you'd probably ask for a bit more money just because of insurance reasons. Like lending a certain set of tools to ONE guy all the time. Different scenario here, but same concept you understand.
     
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post #46 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

Why not?

If your program is more popular than all of these other ones, why not charge your business more money in order to keep up said popularity?

Just sayin' it's not a FAIR reason, but money is what drives the planet...And still if you had someone using something of yours that often, you'd probably ask for a bit more money just because of insurance reasons. Like lending a certain set of tools to ONE guy all the time. Different scenario here, but same concept you understand.

the bandwidth required to stream netflix has already been purchased both by netflix and the consumer.

what you are saying is extortion and protection rackets are a-ok.
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post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imglidinhere View Post

Why not?

If your program is more popular than all of these other ones, why not charge your business more money in order to keep up said popularity?

Just sayin' it's not a FAIR reason, but money is what drives the planet...And still if you had someone using something of yours that often, you'd probably ask for a bit more money just because of insurance reasons. Like lending a certain set of tools to ONE guy all the time. Different scenario here, but same concept you understand.

See below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

the bandwidth required to stream netflix has already been purchased both by netflix and the consumer.

what you are saying is extortion and protection rackets are a-ok.

This.
    
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post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

I understand how this all works, the congestion, the management of it, the infrastructure. My question is this: Sure, certain people and applications eat up more bandwidth than others. Why would you charge them more? For the management of network congestion?

Here's the other side of that. Why are you promising and selling more bandwidth than you have the capability of providing? Because you can, that's why. And that's wrong.

I've literally told my ISP on multiple occasions that I don't want to hear their excuses about why my speed is 5% of what I pay for at certain times. IDGAF about who's using too much and why. You sold me a service, provide it.

This isn't an attack on all ISPs, just on the way service is oversold.

No ISP in their right mind would promise a speed. That is just straight up something people have a tendency to fabricate in their minds, all speeds have always been and will (for the foreseeable future) be an "Up to". Why? Because once you leave the ISPs respective network, there is nothing they can do to help you and can't promise anything.

It isn't a situation of we don't want to promise, it is that we literally can't. While we control deployment on our network, we don't control it outside of networks, and we can't control what happens on our own networks in micro fashion. The moment you "promise" a service to someone, you open yourself up to serious legal implications if you can't deliver for ANY reason.

That is why a fiber back-haul with an SLA that has a 99.99% up-time costs THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS per month. Notice how even that ultra expensive SLA'ed contract service isn't even 100%? ISPs can't even get our major fiber providers to "promise" anything, thus we can't even "promise" to our own customers...

Technology isn't forgiving enough to do that. People are also stupid quick to sue, the conditions to do it aren't possible.

In my case, the ISP has a 15% margin that they promise to maintain. If I purchase 60 down, they agree to provide at least 51. The congestion is on their part though, which I've gotten them to admit. Last time I called them 2 days ago, I was getting 3 Mbps down. I'm not paying for that.
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post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

No ISP in their right mind would promise a speed. That is just straight up something people have a tendency to fabricate in their minds, all speeds have always been and will (for the foreseeable future) be an "Up to". Why? Because once you leave the ISPs respective network, there is nothing they can do to help you and can't promise anything.

It isn't a situation of we don't want to promise, it is that we literally can't. While we control deployment on our network, we don't control it outside of networks, and we can't control what happens on our own networks in micro fashion. The moment you "promise" a service to someone, you open yourself up to serious legal implications if you can't deliver for ANY reason.

I completely understand using "up to" terms and making no promises for the internet as a whole. Like you mentioned it just isn't possible to control things that happen outside of one's network. That being said, I would expect the ISP's network to at least be capable of what they are selling. Bigger companies often miss this mark completely.

Right now I live in a small town served by Frontier. Congestion symptoms start up around 8-10 in the morning and continue until 11 at night. General speeds are around 1Mb or less. I often test at under 0.5Mb on a 12Mb setup during the evening all using Frontier's in network speed test. Packet loss is often above 10% as well to the very first hop. This area is oversold badly, and they are still selling! I can order another line and they will hook me up right up and charge me full price.

If they were on top of fixing issues like this I wouldn't have a problem, but this has been going on for over a year now and they still have no plans to address the issue. I feel that these types of overselling should be avoided. Especially if the company has no plans of spending money on the local area if things get out of hand.
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post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by zooterboy View Post

In my case, the ISP has a 15% margin that they promise to maintain. If I purchase 60 down, they agree to provide at least 51. The congestion is on their part though, which I've gotten them to admit. Last time I called them 2 days ago, I was getting 3 Mbps down. I'm not paying for that.

Most ISPs do operate off a 70% basis, or compared to your numbers, 30% margin....obviously some vary from that.

If you are getting at least 70% of the speed then typically there isn't an issue with hardware, but volume of - and not much can be done - and all is "normal". Not my favorite part of being an ISP, I would love everyone be able to get 100% of speed 100% of the time. Unfortunately network hardware is a whiny ass Diva that refuses to actually allow that to happen.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 1/14/15 at 10:01am
    
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