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Windows audio stack sucks, anything higher than stereo 16 bit 44.1k has higher cursor lag - Page 4  

post #31 of 258
Is this a troll thread?

I have NEVER experienced alternative mouse movement based on expansion cards.

NEVER.


That is from personal experience with potentially hundreds of different cards spanning all the way back to ISA and windows 95. The first time walmart had a laser mouse for sale, I bought it.

Since then the dozens of PS/2 and USB and both wired and wireless mice, never a glitch except when the battery goes low on wireless lol tongue.gif
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post #32 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

Anyone that's used computers since the DOS / Windows 3.1 days and various hardware and OS's since then should have a pretty good baseline of what a mouse is supposed to and not supposed to feel like, it can't really be explained. People who have their first operating system as Windows 7 and have never used a CRT before just won't have a valid frame of reference.
I've used computers since the days of CP/M, and the only time I've ever had the kinds of problems you're referring to is many years ago, when I installed Windows XP on a MediaGX-based laptop and tried to multitask on it. The CPU was too weak to drive the OS, manage the system overhead (which a GXm had to do) and perform more than one task at a time.

If you're having problems, it's more than likely a combination of poorly written Creative drivers plus poorly written mouse drivers. I can't think of a more deadly driver combination, unless you want to throw in a few ATI graphics drivers from the 1999-2003 time period.
     
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post #33 of 258
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Maybe you're just crazy. Mice in the DOS days were ball mice with HUGE latency and tracking issues by themselves alone. Basically every piece of hardware you installed had to fight over a single lane of transportation. Memory and storage space was so limited that you were reading game data directly off of floppy disks, with all the latency that included. Etc.

The early days of LCD monitors with their 60ms+ panel latency are the only time that mouse movement could have ever possible been worse than the days of DOS and earlier. Even that is questionable considering the vast improvements to the rest of the system in the same time period.

I was referring to single DPI mice days like the MLT04 and CRT monitors. I honestly don't remember what ball mice felt like. The tracking was never consistent because they would always get stuff stuck in them, so I never had any kind of baseline for how they should perform. The MLT04 was released in 1996, I think, that's about as far back as I can remember for if components performed good or bad as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post


I have NEVER experienced alternative mouse movement based on expansion cards.

Then you've never used a computer before. I remember back in the day, people would get BSODs installing a sound card in the wrong slot because it would IRQ conflict with some other system component. Computers don't blue screen anymore from things like this, but you still can have problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

If you're having problems, it's more than likely a combination of poorly written Creative drivers plus poorly written mouse drivers. I can't think of a more deadly driver combination, unless you want to throw in a few ATI graphics drivers from the 1999-2003 time period.

I don't have system or mouse problems, it's just that what you consider "good" or "acceptable" performance, I probably consider bad. Like the legions of people using laser mice that type stuff like "works great!"
Edited by r0ach - 1/15/15 at 6:11pm
post #34 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach 
Then you've never used a computer before. I remember back in the day, people would get BSODs installing a sound card in the wrong slot because it would IRQ conflict with some other system component. Computers don't blue screen anymore from things like this, but you still can have problems.

Are you seriously telling me I have never used a computer before?

Go crawl back under your rock and stop trolling the forums
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post #35 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

I was referring to single DPI mice days like the MLT04 and CRT monitors. I honestly don't remember what ball mice felt like. The tracking was never consistent because they would always get stuff stuck in them, so I never had any kind of baseline for how they should perform. The MLT04 was released in 1996, I think, that's about as far back as I can remember for if components performed good or bad as well.
Then you've never used a computer before. I remember back in the day, people would get BSODs installing a sound card in the wrong slot because it would IRQ conflict with some other system component. Computers don't blue screen anymore from things like this, but you still can have problems.
I don't have system or mouse problems, it's just that what you consider "good" or "acceptable" performance, I probably consider bad. Like the legions of people using laser mice that type stuff like "works great!"

What you are thinking of is the Win 95/98 era. Just FYI.

Also, you can still BSOD from IRQ conflicts, although it is much much MUCH less frequent. You don't (usually) have to manually set those IRQs, but sometimes Windows (or bad drivers) do still goof.

There are also some great laser mice... as long as you use your mouse in a hermetically sealed chamber... Ok so not so much in the real world.
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post #36 of 258
Very interesting little read!

Have you tested the effects of (if any) USB DAC's? Those are more often a better solution anyways, as they don't block/impede GPU airflow, and provide equivalent (if not better) sound quality.
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post #37 of 258
show me the numbers.

proof.gif
     
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post #38 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazexa View Post

Very interesting little read!

Have you tested the effects of (if any) USB DAC's? Those are more often a better solution anyways, as they don't block/impede GPU airflow, and provide equivalent (if not better) sound quality.

I'm sorry, but no, it's not an interesting read. He does this all the time. Literally every single thing PC related affects your mouse according to r0ach. Soon it will be 120mm fans are worse for mouse movement than 140mm fans, but some 140mm fans are better than others, and then tell you which ones to buy or upgrade to.

There is zero evidence, as always, with r0aches posts. He just makes statements and some people believe it like they believe anything told to them as long as it's presented reasonably. It's time the mods did something about this as he does it so often and no one really confronts it, so people start to listen to him and think that when he talk about a new issue, it's something worth taking note of.

The guy is just pulling this out of thin air, and i feel a bit sorry for him. Either he is testing his mouse over and over and over in turmoil day after day over the smallest, stupid things, tweaking motherboard settings, testing testing testing, try ps/2, testing testing testing, try LLC voltage high, testing testing testing, and so on, OR he is troll posting and making up stuff whenever he feels like it.

Either way it's not healthy.
post #39 of 258
TBH I'm inclined to give benefit of doubt to this kind of thing mostly because of what I have experienced with audio, lots of super-retarded sounding tin-hat things which are difficult to qualify or measure but still can be discerned if you are sensitive to such things.

PCI sound cards are not going to be the solution for everyone - a lot of boards mine included do not have PCI slots. In fact I'm pretty sure all the X99 boards don't have PCI.

HDMI from the video card might work, but HDMI audio input is not common, mostly due to the licensing fees. The only HiFi DAC that springs to mind is the NAD M51. When connecting a computer to a DAC in general though you want some kind of electrical isolation otherwise noise from the computer will find it's way to the DAC chip. Not sure if HDMI inputs will be electrically isolated.

Optical out from a sound card is generally a good idea to avoid ground loops.

With keyboards I suspect there are few native PS2 designs, mostly usb to PS2 converters. still the same I/O but on a different bus. I suspect different keyboards have different polling rates due to key rollover features. I look forward to a native PS2 keyboard…

As far as sound goes, wit my equipment USB is the best, but not sure what happens when a game is running. I don't get dropouts but have no idea how this affects the USB. On my music server I find a separate PCIE USB card works well for audio, not sure if this might be a solution here?
post #40 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forma View Post

I'm sorry, but no, it's not an interesting read. He does this all the time. Literally every single thing PC related affects your mouse according to r0ach. Soon it will be 120mm fans are worse for mouse movement than 140mm fans, but some 140mm fans are better than others, and then tell you which ones to buy or upgrade to.

There is zero evidence, as always, with r0aches posts. He just makes statements and some people believe it like they believe anything told to them as long as it's presented reasonably. It's time the mods did something about this as he does it so often and no one really confronts it, so people start to listen to him and think that when he talk about a new issue, it's something worth taking note of.

The guy is just pulling this out of thin air, and i feel a bit sorry for him. Either he is testing his mouse over and over and over in turmoil day after day over the smallest, stupid things, tweaking motherboard settings, testing testing testing, try ps/2, testing testing testing, try LLC voltage high, testing testing testing, and so on, OR he is troll posting and making up stuff whenever he feels like it.

Either way it's not healthy.
Well, maybe there is some/total accuracy to your post.
I've never seen anything else by the original poster before.

But what I can say, is perhaps some other influence was affecting it, or it was the age of the mouse, but when I had my old Performance MX and a Xonar Essence STX in my build, I would have some stutter on my mouse movement. Or drops where I'd move the mouse and nothing on screen happened. With my current PC and a newer of the same mouse, everything is smooth. So it very well might just be coincidence.
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  • Windows audio stack sucks, anything higher than stereo 16 bit 44.1k has higher cursor lag
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Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Windows audio stack sucks, anything higher than stereo 16 bit 44.1k has higher cursor lag