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Acer XB270HU 27" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync IPS ULMB Discussion Thread - Page 90

post #891 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post

Thats a little pricey for a Swift IMO. I have seen them go as low as $539 used, at different websites.

sure, used.

I don't by used equipment.
post #892 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

Any chance this will be lower than the current $799 through Acer once it hits other retailers?

Been itching to possibly replace my Apple Cinema 27 I've had since 2010 and torn between this (used to be a Swift) and a 34 inch 21:9 1440 monitor....


If anything with the demand, the price may go up. I've seen newegg do it before.
post #893 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

I have an i1 Display Pro, I like it more than the Spyder 4. The Spyders are quite slow and I must say the Spyder software is a bit too simplified (I own a Spyder as well). The i1 Display Pro software will also lock the GPU LUT for each monitor so it doesn't get changed.

While software calibration is great it is no substitute for a good factory calibration.

With a software calibration you are changing the 8 bit values sent to the monitor to adjust the color displayed while with a good factory calibration you can still use the full 8-bit range. If you need to change the color too much with software you often get banding as 8-bit simply isn't enough precision.

I used to generate a profile for absolutely every display I came in contact with but after more experience with different displays I got a bit more relaxed and now I try to tune the OSD options using the meter to get a setting where I do not need to use a profile in Windows. Of course on many monitors I still need a software calibration to get decent results but I am hoping this one will not be one of them. Good settings on the monitor can look better than using a software calibration, depending on how accurate you need the colors and what you have to give up to improve the color accuracy.

Having a meter to adjust R, G, B, and examine the effect of changing brightness and contrast is excellent but don't assume a profile will always improve things in all ways. I use colorHCFR to examine the effects of changing settings and applying a profile.

Both Sypder and i1 Displays Pro calibrate for graphic design workflows and do not have enough options so I tend to use Argyllcms (open source) as I am calibrating for games and movies, not graphic design. It always takes me some tinkering to find good settings for a new display. Argyll can also generate a 3DLUT for madVR which offers a much better calibration than the simple 3 1DLUTs of a Windows profile.

If the XB270HU has a 2.4 BT.1886 gamma and <2 deltaE color errors I don't think I will need to use a profile on it. I really want to know how the gamma was calibrated. tongue.gif

I've rarely found a monitor in the Acer/Asus/LG IPS-class that has good OOB factory calibration on it; my experience has always been that the monitors always tend to widely vary in their factory calibration.

Yes, there are TONS of options for calibrating a display, but i've found no need to go past a Spyder or yes, your i1. You'll find supporters of both colorimeters en masse, so it's usually a preference thing. I'll reiterate that again, personally, i've never owned a monitor where i used strict OSD settings and have been happy with the results, as opposed to just slapping on my Spyder and getting something worlds better in 10 minutes. Not to mention, there are a host of displays (Korean IPS displays specifically) that lack a range of calibration settings built it, so software profiles tend to be necessary there.

I've also found no discernable difference in calibrating for graphic design/photography with an aim for accurate color reproduction vs. "calibrating for games and movies," but if you can cite comparisons on why calibrating for one vs the other makes a reasonable difference, then i'll gladly look into it. Otherwise, most people sit in front of their computers and browse the internet probably equal to if not more than they would playing games (unless you're straight up doing super-long gaming sessions), so again, something like a Spyder or i1 is going to be more than sufficient vs relying on factory calibrations or eye-balling it. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Spyder colorimeters (especially the Spyder 3 since it does not support LED back lighting) are inaccurate and can't read contrast properly either which is why Callman, Spectracal and none of the good monitor reviewers use them.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/01/choosing-right-display-calibration.html

The x-rite colormunkie is the only cheap worthwhile colorimeter, plus it can be used with dispcalgui+agyrll which is free as well as one of the best programs for calibration.

S4P supports LED backlighting; i've also used the colormunkie and sent it right back to Amazon. I've found the S4P accurate enough compared to factory calibrations/tweaking without having to go into the hundreds-and-hundreds of dollars range to go for the absolute best; there are commercial calibrators that literally cost thousands that we can throw into the mix, but I was aiming more for making people of aware of a decent, affordable solution, especially when absolute accuracy is not needed nor is it warranted to this class of a consumer display. If we want to justify the most expensive colorimeters out there, we should be talking about displays that are aimed to be paired with them, and not gaming displays that, while cost $800 due to g-sync and 144hz specifically, aren't aimed for professional use and thus hardly warrant colorimeters and options that can far exceed the cost of the displays themselves. thumb.gif
Edited by jcde7ago - 3/28/15 at 1:46pm
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post #894 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxus View Post

If anything with the demand, the price may go up. I've seen newegg do it before.

I can sit on my hands if that happened, I was happy to pay a premium when 1440p wasn't prevalent but nowadays I'll probably wait for $700 or less. Seems like a great product, might see where the competition is once the 390x drops, hopefully one of the bigger brands takes interest if not already.
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post #895 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

I can sit on my hands if that happened, I was happy to pay a premium when 1440p wasn't prevalent but nowadays I'll probably wait for $700 or less. Seems like a great product, might see where the competition is once the 390x drops, hopefully one of the bigger brands takes interest if not already.

I actually do see the price for these XB270HUs increasing...the demand is already there, and further perpetuated by all the absolutely glowing reviews from various outlets calling this, "the best gaming monitor ever." You can't find an enthusiast PC hardware or gaming site, blog, etc., where people aren't keeping an eye on this thing or have browser tabs devoted to refreshing product pages just waiting for this thing to go into stock. Unless Acer can reasonably churn these out to exceed demand, it may be a painful wait for some people for the next couple of months, especially once we start to get into Summer, where more people will have more free time to sit around and try to snag one of these to game on all Summer long.

Even the Swift had supply issues in certain parts of the world up to 6 months after it released, and i'd argue that Asus' production quotas are probably larger than Acer's.

This is why I ordered 3 of these on Wednesday off the bat; a) figured it'd be harder to get another 2 down the road to complete my Surround setup and b) I had to take advantage of that coupon that knocked off $240 for three of them, essentially negating tax + overnight shipping costs for us Californians with ~10% tax. thumb.gif
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post #896 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

You'll find supporters of both colorimeters en masse, so it's usually a preference thing.

No, it's only possible to find people who did not research properly and bought a Spyder. No professional uses or endorses Spyders because the inter-unit accuracy varies too much and the best ones are still inferior to x-rites meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

S4P supports LED backlighting

Huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Spyder colorimeters (especially the Spyder 3 since it does not support LED back lighting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

I've also used the colormunkie and sent it right back to Amazon. I've found the S4P accurate enough

That's nice, but your opinion is not based on anything concrete. I provided sources from professionals who do not recommend Spyder products.
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post #897 of 4031
Own a Spyder Elite and can confirm - it is not as great as made out to be in this thead. Certainly not worth the money. If anyone wants to buy a used one. Ha...

I've been using TFTCentral's ICC profiles and tuning guides and have been happy. That's how lazy I've been...don't even want to drag the Spyder out and install their crappy Windows 3.1-esque software lol.

EDIT: actually it's an Elite. Cost me $250. frown.gif
Edited by sk3tch - 3/28/15 at 2:15pm
post #898 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

No, it's only possible to find people who did not research properly and bought a Spyder. No professional uses or endorses Spyders because the inter-unit accuracy varies too much and the best ones are still inferior to x-rites meters.
Huh?

That's nice, but your opinion is not based on anything concrete. I provided sources from professionals who do not recommend Spyder products.

You sound fun, so i'll gladly back away from this discussion; it's not really worth it to keep going at it. People are free to invest in whatever colorimeter they want for their needs, and the S4P suits mine. If you want to keep using the, "there's more professional options out there that are worthwhile" and keep linking to sites/blogs stating such, please feel free (I could do the same, but it's not needed...anyone can Google this, right?). I could do the same with hardware + software that can also cost everyone thousands of dollars, but what's the point? If people here weren't already aware of basic calibration tools outside of their monitor's OSD settings, they're likely not going to need the products to calibrate their gaming monitor to the exact degree that a professional would. I brought up the Spyders because they're cheap, and they're far better than OOB calibration, and they work for me. Simple as that.
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post #899 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk3tch View Post

Own a Spyder Pro and can confirm - it is not as great as made out to be in this thead. Certainly not worth the money. If anyone wants to buy a used one. Ha...

I've been using TFTCentral's ICC profiles and tuning guides and have been happy. That's how lazy I've been...don't even want to drag the Spyder out and install their crappy Windows 3.1-esque software lol.

Used to do the same with TFTCentral's .icc profiles, but that's only acceptable (to me) if you're fine with using a profile that was gleaned off someone else's calibration, and for me, monitors vary enough to where applying someone else's .icc profile is never a one-for-one thing. At $89, I can't complain about my S4P.
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post #900 of 4031
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

I've rarely found a monitor in the Acer/Asus/LG IPS-class that has good OOB factory calibration on it; my experience has always been that the monitors always tend to widely vary in their factory calibration.

This is true to me as well but I hope this one will be one of the rare ones, the TFTCentral review was not as impressive as the Swift but still quite good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

Yes, there are TONS of options for calibrating a display, but i've found no need to go past a Spyder or yes, your i1. You'll find supporters of both colorimeters en masse, so it's usually a preference thing. I'll reiterate that again, personally, i've never owned a monitor where i used strict OSD settings and have been happy with the results, as opposed to just slapping on my Spyder and getting something worlds better in 10 minutes. Not to mention, there are a host of displays (Korean IPS displays specifically) that lack a range of calibration settings built it, so software profiles tend to be necessary there.

I've also found no discernable difference in calibrating for graphic design/photography with an aim for accurate color reproduction vs. "calibrating for games and movies," but if you can cite comparisons on why calibrating for one vs the other makes a reasonable difference, then i'll gladly look into it. Otherwise, most people sit in front of their computers and browse the internet probably equal to if not more than they would playing games (unless you're straight up doing super-long gaming sessions), so again, something like a Spyder or i1 is going to be more than sufficient vs relying on factory calibrations or eye-balling it. thumb.gif

Yes, my most of the cheap and/or gaming monitors seem to not have a factory calibration at all. Eye-balling is totally ineffective in my opinion. My Overlords have no OSD at all and would need a calibration even if they did. I am also not suggesting getting a more expensive meter than the Spyder 4 or i1d3, simply using Argyllcms (and dispcalgui if you want) to do the calibration.

The difference between graphic design and movie calibrations is in how the correction near black is handled and what gamma is targeted. Neither of the two software packages target BT.1886 which is much better for movies and games than sRGB and pure power crushes blacks on a display with this black level so you lose shadow detail (especially bad for games). Targeting BT.1886 everything else (web, etc.) looks great, the difference is that you are changing the gamma curve based on the black level, this allows a higher contrast appearance while not crushing shadows but because our perception of color changes with brightness you do not get a perfect match between displays with different black levels as one would want for graphic design. You also do not correct black or near black because it looks better to have the wrong color black than raised black levels. BT.1886 improves the apparent contrast v.s. a standard sRGB calibration.

Argyllcms + dispcalgui is easy to use and free, so give it a shot if you are interested. It is compatible with the Spyder 4 without any fussing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcde7ago View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MenacingTuba View Post

Spyder colorimeters (especially the Spyder 3 since it does not support LED back lighting) are inaccurate and can't read contrast properly either which is why Callman, Spectracal and none of the good monitor reviewers use them.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/01/choosing-right-display-calibration.html

The x-rite colormunkie is the only cheap worthwhile colorimeter, plus it can be used with dispcalgui+agyrll which is free as well as one of the best programs for calibration.

S4P supports LED backlighting; i've also used the colormunkie and sent it right back to Amazon. I've found the S4P accurate enough compared to factory calibrations/tweaking without having to go into the hundreds-and-hundreds of dollars range to go for the absolute best; there are commercial calibrators that literally cost thousands that we can throw into the mix, but I was aiming more for making people of aware of a decent, affordable solution, especially when absolute accuracy is not needed nor is it warranted to this class of a consumer display. If we want to justify the most expensive colorimeters out there, we should be talking about displays that are aimed to be paired with them, and not gaming displays that, while cost $800 due to g-sync and 144hz specifically, aren't aimed for professional use and thus hardly warrant colorimeters and options that can far exceed the cost of the displays themselves. thumb.gif

The colormunkie has terrible near black performance and I don't believe it offers any more accuracy than the i1d3. Both the Spyder 4 and i1d3 are decent but the i1d3 is faster, the Spyder 3 was crap though. A spectrometer would be great so we don't have to use spectral correction files to support different backlights but, yes, they are a tad too expensive for me to justify.
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Desktop
(17 items)
 
RAID
(17 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-6700K @ 4.7GHz Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero Alpha Titan X (Pascal) @ 2.05GHz 32GB LPX DDR4 3200-15-17-17-35-1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 950 Pro 512GB Samsung 850 Pro 1TB EK Custom Water Loop Windows 10 Pro x64 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Acer XB270HU bprz HTC Vive Logitech G810 SilverStone ST1200-G Evolution 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Old Marble Slab Logitech G900 Logitech G440 Sennheiser 280 Pro 
Other
Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-5960X @ 4.2GHz Asus Rampage 5 Extreme Nvidia GeForce GT 545 32GB DDR4 (2400-12-12-12-28-1T) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
Samsung 950 Pro M.2 512GB HGST NAS 4TB x8 - 21.8TB RAID6 Western Digital Black 4TB Samsung SH-S183L 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Noctua NH-D15 Windows 10 Pro Asus VG278H WASD "CODE" Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseOther
SeaSonic Platinum-1000 DIYPC Alpha-GT3 Logitech G700s Mellanox ConnectX-3 MCX312A-XCBT 10 GbE Adapter 
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Adaptec RAID 71605 
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