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GIGABYTE GTX 9xx H2O/AIR BIOS Tweaking ┌(ô益ô)┐ - Page 12

post #111 of 6228
Thread Starter 
AMPS to WATTS CONVERSION (Click to show)
Let's establish some helpful facts about POWER (not talking TDP yet):

PCI-e
☞ a 6-PIN PCI-e connector has (3) 12v yellow wires / 3 black grounds and rated for 75W of power
☞ a 8-PIN PCI-e connector has (3) 12v yellow wires / 5 black grounds and rated for 150W of power

There are NO additional yellow 12V lines with an 8-PIN connector.   


You might wonder (as did I), how it would be possible to draw DOUBLE the amount of watts when no additional power is provided?

The short answer is because (3) 12V yellow lines are capable of providing 150W of power. Technically even more than 150W. The simple reason why a 6-pin is rated at half the wattage is because there are less grounds available. The extra grounds added to an 8-PIN PCI-e connector are actually serving as grounds but also a switch to tell the device it can draw 150W instead of 75W (that's the very simple version to make the point).

You may have noticed I included an AMP → WATT converter link at the top. This is a handy tool. Each yellow 12V line on a PCI-e connector (either 6-PIN or 8-PIN) can technically supply ~8A. This doesn't mean that is going to be what is drawn, this is just the MAX capability per EACH 12V yellow line. Add them up you get a total of 24A. Use the link to convert 24A → WATTS and you get 288 WATTS. This is not what the video cards are going to DRAW. This is just a theoretical figure based on the gauge of the wire and the PCI-e standard.



I found this in the interwebnet regarding PCI-E standards: "Since Mar 2005, the molex pins are required to be HCS rather than Std, which each carry a max of 11Amps. So properly made, an 8 pin PCI-e can supply 12V*11Amps*3lines=396Watts of power for the graphic cards.

The other limiting factor of course is the width of the PCB lines on the graphics card, each typically carrying 1-2 Amps. That would also determine how much power it could carry to the graphics electronics.

That should clear that up.


To be thorough, folks may want to be concerned with HOW you connect your GPU. I see some SHORTCUTS that MIGHT possibly be a concern... and if they work just fine, hey if it isn't broke don't fix it. When you take a look at some of the options sold, is there cause to raise an eyebrow. Let's face it, if the proper power supply was used each PCI-E connector would come straight from the power supply. Single rail designs may not matter much, I'm not super clear but regardless let's take a look at some of these "SHORTCUTS" we see out there for connecting GPU power. Note the number of 12V yellow power feeds and grounds and "double up" on the 12V lines. Doubling up on the grounds is also shown which is not a problem but I wanted to include the variation.



thumb.gif
post #112 of 6228
@ Laithan,
I have a 750 ti. I also have a 6-pin aux connector. Is it safe to assume that I could technically set the TDP to 150000 and pci-e to 75000 and power limit to 150000(130%) ? The only reason I am asking here is because its Maxwell related.
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post #113 of 6228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAngel74 View Post

@ Laithan,
I have a 750 ti. I also have a 6-pin aux connector. Is it safe to assume that I could technically set the TDP to 150000 and pci-e to 75000 and power limit to 150000(130%) ? The only reason I am asking here is because its Maxwell related.

I am not sure if 150000 is too much for that card or not.. So you can definitely increase it over stock, but how much?? I am not clear on how much is "too much" and what the real dangers are here.. This is what I am trying to research now. I have identified further tweaks in the power area with my BIOS testing (I will be sharing more about this once I'm done researching/testing) but still working to understand them a bit better as we speak and be sure about the risks and safety.

...based on the explanation on Zoson's OP (Click to show)
He says:

"PCI-E - Power the GPU will draw off the PCI-E socket, don't exceed 75000!

PSU Rail1 & 2 - 6 pin cards will be set to ~75000, but since we know 8pin is just a 6pin with 2 more grounds, you can increase this to as much as 200W depending on the PSU. (200W at 12v = ~17A current draw)

Power Target - This is how you increase the nominal operating power. This also represents the slider in Afterburner, etc. Max should match Max of TDP.

If you set your Max TDP and Power Target higher than the combined power of your rails, you will never be able to reach the specified TDP/Power Target.
So, Remember: PCIE + PSU Rail1 + PSU Rail2 = Max TDP/Power Target"



I have seen many people increase a 6-PIN from 75000 to 108000. I don't know if your suggested 150000 is too much or not. According to Zoson's "formula" - 75000 + 108000 = 183000. 183000 would then be set as BOTH your TDP max and your power limit max.. I have asked for clarification on his thread also. If you used 150000, the formula would be 75000 + 150000 = 225000.

That is quite a difference from stock which is why I'm trying to clarify my understanding.

In MY case, since I have (2) 8-pin PCI-e, I am looking at bumping them to aroun 185000 each which brings my formula to 75000 + 185000 + 185000 = 445000 which also seems high.



If anyone has "been down this road before", please jump in and share what you've previously learned.

Thanks!
post #114 of 6228
Ran fire strike at 4k and played ff 13 pc for a bit. No crashes or glitches, watched a few movies. I had some power to spare from 750w psu so I went for it. Maybe I will back it off a bit after coffee. Thanks for replying. The 750 club thread is basically dead... Also so far max tdp in gpu-z is 26.7%, so maybe the settings are too high. The power table looks like this:
30000
150000
150000

75000
75000
75000

30000
115000
150000(130%)
What do you think?
Edited by DeathAngel74 - 3/29/15 at 10:03am
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post #115 of 6228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAngel74 View Post

Ran fire strike at 4k and played ff 13 pc for a bit. No crashes or glitches, watched a few movies. I had some power to spare from 750w psu so I went for it. Maybe I will back it off a bit after coffee. Thanks for replying. The 750 club thread is basically dead... Also so far max tdp in gpu-z is 26.7%, so maybe the settings are too high. The power table looks like this:
30000
150000
150000

75000
75000
75000

30000
115000
150000(130%)
What do you think?

I jumped in bravely too! thumb.gif

I said WTH I might as well give it a try because setting a higher power isn't going to GIVE/PUSH more power, it is going to allow more to be TAKEN/PULLED.

I can definitely see how I may have set too much because I'm only using 76% power on average, in your case it seems you are way high. I think if I was you, I would configure your 6-Pin rail @ 110000 and set your TDP and MAX power to 185000. I also note the percentages of the MIN values and try to maintain the same percentages after the tweak which will increase the minimum and default power also if they are maintained.

I am tweaking V5BETA of the BIOS now as I am learning from these tests. V4BETA, with the NEW version 3.5 of Kombuster, was getting PWR perfcaps mad.gif. I have been able to resolve the problem by allowing more power to be drawn. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Now I just need to back down the totals to where the 100% reading is truly the point where 100% of the power is being used.

Good stuff! businesssmiley.png

Stay tuned devil-smiley-019.gif

This is over 15mins hammering my GPU, IT NEVER THROTTLED NO PERFCAPS (Click to show)
yay! thumb.gif
Edited by Laithan - 3/29/15 at 11:03am
post #116 of 6228
I finally settled on this:
GM107Mod.zip 127k .zip file Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

No perfcaps either, so yay! And for the first time all my Fire Strike scores are consistent, almost identical +/- a point or 2.Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/6435781
Edited by DeathAngel74 - 3/29/15 at 4:39pm
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post #117 of 6228
Playing Final Fantasy XIII @ 3840x2160/60hz with GeDoSaTo is really nice. I really appreciate all of your effort and time you have put into this thread, Laithan. I use most of the info you post here and try to work it into my own Maxwell Gen. 1 bios mod.
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post #118 of 6228
Now I am itching to try 1569.5mhz @ 1.312V again. What have you done...
post #119 of 6228
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAngel74 View Post

Playing Final Fantasy XIII @ 3840x2160/60hz with GeDoSaTo is really nice. I really appreciate all of your effort and time you have put into this thread, Laithan. I use most of the info you post here and try to work it into my own Maxwell Gen. 1 bios mod.

That is so awesome! I am glad to hear it bro. I am happy I could help, really.

What good does it do to learn things and keep them to myself wink.gif


TIP: For whatever reason (I didn't bother to figure this out) launching Kombuster from within MSI Afterburner generated a furry test that was more demanding than selecting the furry test from the Kombuster application itself.


UPDATE:

I have been playing around with the power settings much much more. I've been able to increase the power JUST ENOUGH to satisfy the POWER VIRUS perfcaps I noticed in Kombuster v3.5 after I upgraded from v2. I was actually able to draw more power with many of the other power parameters I was testing (I have Corsair link and also a wall tester) with but allowing the card to draw TOO MUCH power actually reduced stability and lowered Firestrike Ultra scores so I made sure to tone it down to avoid that (was just part of the rev-eng). I think I've now dialed in the "sweet spot as a result" thumb.gif. I've flashed my cards about 35 more times this weekend tongue.gif. I need to do some more testing but I think I am close to releasing V5BETA that will include these improvements. V5BETA will not just be a cosmetic improvement after all smile.gif. This was one of the most difficult areas to figure out and I'm still trying to answer some questions. I do have the functionality I was looking for which is all that matters biggrin.gif. When you MAX OUT the power slider in MSI AB, that's the precise point where you are allowing enough power to be drawn to satisfy even a power virus boxing3.gif


WARNING: I want to be super clear that the entire time the BETA BIOS' posted in this thread by me (up to V4BETA) have been for an 8 + 8 PCI-e configuration. The power settings in the BETA BIOS' have been primarily left as default for a Gigabyte GTX 980 G1, up until now. Starting with V5BETA, I have INCREASED the DEFAULT power as well as the MAXIMUM power. IE: If you don't have a Gigabyte GTX 980 G1 Gaming, or at least a GTX 980 that has an 8 + 8 PCI-e configuration than you will need to modify to fit YOUR CARD'S power input configuration. If you need help, just PM me. NOTE: The increases are WELL within range of an 8 + 8 PCI-e but they are NOT IN RANGE for 6 + 6 or 8 + 6!. I just want to be clear on this.


I don't think adding both rails + 75000 applies to an 8 + 8 PCI-e configuration. Using that formula I was drawing more power than I needed and my stability and firestrike scores were negatively impacted. I was able to reverse engineer the exact point where sufficient power was drawn to satisfy and remove the PWR perfcap during a power virus max load. There is really no point allowing any more power (it is possible, like I said earlier) because quite simply it doesn't need that much.
Edited by Laithan - 3/30/15 at 6:50pm
post #120 of 6228
Hello

I have problems flashing my gigabyte gtx980 g1 gaming.
Whene i first tried to flash my card i open up the VGA Tools -- @BIOS.
There was writen BIOS version: GV-N980G1 GAMING-4GD. so i first extracted the original bios to my harddrive and the file was autonamed sometext_bios.F50

so i think my card was F50 Bios version.

-thene i tried to flash the F51 Bios from website: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5208#bios
-flash didnt work = error message something like: wrong ID.
-next i tried to flash with nvflash. didnt work: wrong Id or something.
-next i tried to flash with modified nvflash certificate bypass version. flashing worked but by gfx card coult not boot anymore.
-next i tried about 2 days (20 hours min) to flash different bioses. i tried all versions from this site: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5208#bios
-next i tried the F51 Bios from the 970 G1 gaming page
> it worked! (i was so happy)
-the problem with the 970 bios, the games crashed all the time. everytime at the same gameposition.

-so i tried next to flash the .51 Bios from the 980 OC version card. didnt work. damn, i had to plug in another gfx card again to boot into windows.
- now i am on the bios .FB1 from the 980 OC version and all works fine. http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5215#bios

the problem is the overclock speed that is lower then the original from G1 version i have.
i think the bios i need is the .f51 for 980 G1 because the first time i backed up my bios the file was named .f50.
the problem seems on the gigabyte server becuase i think the .f51 file seems to be broken. nvflash error id is not the same, id is 000000. all other bios have numbers like 18795e3.
why does gtx970 bios f51 work and gtx980 OC bios f51 not?

can someone with f51 bios running please extract it and give it to me, or help me with another tip. original .F50 bios would be good to. i dont have it anymore.

greetings from a non native english speaker
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