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Product info and discussion - VARDAR radiator fans - Page 44

post #431 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kutalion View Post

I doubt its scraping. Its just the deadspot from the large motor hub.


Not the middle, it's the radiator frame/metal shell. (not the fins)

Edit: I forgot to mention that turning the fan 90 degree solves the problem.
Edited by TK421 - 10/28/15 at 5:19pm
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紅魔館
(12 items)
 
秋山 澪
(11 items)
 
For Sale: Crucial 2x8GB DDR4 2400 / 1TB 2.5" HDD
$40 (USD) or best offer
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 5820K ASUS X99 Deluxe Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Crucial Ballistix Sport 4x4G DDR4-2400 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WD Black 4TB Samsung 850 EVO 1TB Dell CH30N BD-Read Noctua NH-D15 
CoolingOSPowerCase
Noctua NF-A14 PWM x6 Windows 10 Enterprise EVGA 750W G2 Phanteks Enthoo Luxe 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 7700K P870KM1 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveOS
Gskill 3000MHz 16GB F4-3000C16D-16GRS  Samsung 850 EVO 500GB Samsung 850 Pro 500GB Windows 10 Enterprise 
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post #432 of 801
I'm in a seemingly never ending quest to run a powerful but quiet computer. After buying a semi-passive PSU, suspending my 5400 RPM hard drive with elastic cord, running the cpu and case fans at around 500 to 600 RPM, and burying the whole lot in a Corsair 550D, there was still the issue of the video card -- in my case a 780 Lightning. In that 550D, the Lightning's fans would spool up to 2100 RPM. Even with the side panel removed, the fans would reach 1700-1800 RPM.

To give you an idea of how picky I am about noise: no fan is quiet above 800 RPM.

Even recent video cards with their passive mode in idle still spin their relatively small diameter fans at 1500+ when loaded. The threshold for the meaning of the word "quiet" is probably very different for me than for others. If you're in a high ambient noise environment, you may not mind 2000 RPM, but that's not me.

I realized that I wouldn't be satisfied with air cooling of any video card, so I decided to try a custom water cooling loop with the EK-KIT L360. The biggest worry I had was the pump, but it turned out the pump running at 1250 RPM is inaudible to me past about ten inches. I'm extremely happy with the kit except for one thing. This too-long introduction was just to set up why I'm so disappointed with the Vardar fans.

EK-Vardar F3-120 (1850rpm) Mini-Review!

Let's start with how I'm controlling them first. Except for the CPU header, my Asus Z87 Pro only has non-PWM fake 4-pin fan headers. So I have to use voltage control unless I want to run the PWM pump at full speed, which I don't. With that caveat out of the way, if anyone feels like running the fans with PWM would make a large difference to the results I'm presenting here, let me know.

Here's the Fan Xpert results:


All acoustic measurements were taken with a Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic at 6 inches from the fan. The fans were placed on a thick foam pad unless otherwise noted. I have no SPL meter, so I have no absolute measurements, but we can compare relative results. Also, the Vardar fan connectors are far too short!

Ambient noise levels:


The spikes at 60Hz, 120Hz and their harmonics are from US line frequency effects -- maybe the power supply, the fluorescent lights, or wall transformers. I'm not quite living in an anechoic chamber!

Here are the Vardar results from various frequencies:






To get an idea of the volume, look at the RMS dB values.

First thing that's apparent are two fairly broad tonal peaks at 390 and 530 Hz. But there's also a wide-band rise that starts at 70 Hz at 500 RPM and makes its way up to about 140 Hz at 1200 RPM. At every RPM below 1650, these fans have a tremendously noticeable and irritating sound. They're the most unbalanced fans I've experienced, and they warble continuously. The lower frequency rise, especially around 100 Hz, seems to reverberate inside any case -- it's a noise that's hard not to pay attention to. At max speed, the fans are much better behaved, having a mostly broadband wind noise. But at this point, they're simply too loud to be of use to me.

But the biggest problem comes when you rigidly mount them to any surface, whether case or radiator. Because they're so unbalanced, they transfer a ton of energy into the radiator and you get something like this:



A potpourri of sounds! That's the fan sitting on the desk without the foam pad, but it illustrates nicely what happens when you screw it into the radiator. This was so bad, I had to mount them solely with sticky-back Velcro tape.

Here's the video of the RPM sweeps and also some bonus high shutter speed video of the fan. Listen for the warbling and watch until the end. While it's very hard to video, it's easy to see with your eyes that the fan hub and blades wobble around. Pay close attention to the edge of the hub and watch the slow-mo blades.



Now let's contrast the Vardar with a fan that sounds much better:
Scythe Slip Stream 120 DB 1200 RPM version (SY1225DB12M).




At 900 RPM, the Scythe is about 1 dB quieter than the Vardar, but has two sharp tonal peaks. These are much less distracting because the fan is so well balanced. The sound is mostly pleasant. At it's max speed, the Scythe has a few more tonal spikes, but the sound is smooth with no modulation or warbling. It also feels like it's moving more air at 1250 RPM than the Vardar is at 1800, but I can't verify that. But 1250 RPM is still far too loud for general use. The Slip Stream is great from 450 to about 750.

I'm of course disappointed with the Vardar fans. It's not just one; all three measure nearly identically. I've read through this thread and watched quite a few youtube reviews, but I haven't yet seen anyone complain about the things I'm complaining about. What gives?

The Slip Stream DB is the best fan I've found so far, but I'm always looking for better or quieter fans. It's just that trying a bunch of different fans gets very expensive fast. My computer consumes maybe 350 watts max, and I have a 360mm and a 240mm radiator, so I don't need industrial strength fans. So if you have any recommendations, let me know.
Edited by Ashun - 11/13/15 at 11:53am
post #433 of 801
Vardars are high performance fans with good perf/sound ratio. They are not "silent fans". If you want silent fans look at CM Silencio, NB-eloops, Bequiet Silentwings...
But none of them has the performance of vardar fans.
post #434 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashun View Post

Let's start with how I'm controlling them first. Except for the CPU header, my Asus Z87 Pro only has non-PWM fake 4-pin fan headers. So I have to use voltage control unless I want to run the PWM
Did NOT know this :/ I have the Z87-Deluxe and after seeing this did some Googling and found out the same is true for my board. I'm just about to replace ALL my fans with Vardards to get a full PWM setups instead of my current VC Corsair fans (this is a big chunk of my build cost with 8 ER fans).
What's the effect of running PWM fans in VC mode, since they work differently?
post #435 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashun View Post

Let's start with how I'm controlling them first. Except for the CPU header, my Asus Z87 Pro only has non-PWM fake 4-pin fan headers. So I have to use voltage control unless I want to run the PWM pump at full speed, which I don't. With that caveat out of the way, if anyone feels like running the fans with PWM would make a large difference to the results I'm presenting here, let me know.
Just because you think all 4-pin fan headers are PWM does make any of the 4-pin headers on a motherboard fake!
That said, Asus did say some of the 4-pin heads on their motherboards were PWM when in fact they were not.

4-pin PWM headers are PWM on pin-4 with constant 12v power on pin-2.
4-pin variable voltage headers have nothing on pin-4 with variable voltage on pin-2.
post #436 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kutalion View Post

Vardars are high performance fans with good perf/sound ratio. They are not "silent fans". If you want silent fans look at CM Silencio, NB-eloops, Bequiet Silentwings...
But none of them has the performance of vardar fans.

eloops are far from silent fans, they're probably on the louder side of the spectrum.
post #437 of 801
I have 3 of them next to my monitor, mounted on a rad. Barely audible @ 1000rpm. They have nasty sound after 1500rpm but then again, you wont be running any fans @ that RPM if you want silence. smile.gif
post #438 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashun View Post

EK-Vardar F3-120 (1850rpm) Mini-Review!
I totally second that !

Got a dozen F2-120 and I'm really pissed off mad.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by akira749 View Post

One thing that some users sometimes do is that they go under the recommended cycle % of the fan (25% for the F4-120ER, 40% for the F4-120 and FF5-120, 50% for the F2-120 and F3-120 and 60% for the F1-120)

Truth is, if EK recommends those cycles, the only reason is at those speed the whinning noise is almost covered by airflow noise...
And I said "almost", I still can hear the "weee-wooo-weee-wooo" whining on my F2-120 at 50% and more. doh.gif
Joke is, at around 17% (~500rpm), there's no whining.

Moreover, an F2-120 at 50% PWM runs at around 1000-11000rpm. And they're way too noisy !
The icing on the cake is the Vardar's frame is made from some kind of crappy chinese soft plastic, add the lack of pillar reinforcement and frame bends and craks under little constraint. eh-smiley.gif

Honestly those fans are the worst I've bought from years, and considering their price it's nothing but a scam surfing on Gentle Typhoon's standing.
And that's kinda weird compared to usual EK's product quality.

If I knew, I'd have bought dozens of those AP-13/14... cryingsmiley.gif
sozo.gif

edit: and I forgot to mention their continuous high pitch whine...
Edited by MasterDav - 11/9/15 at 4:03pm
post #439 of 801
Can someone please elaborate on the impact/potential harm to a Vardar ER fan if run as VC (Asus z87 motherboard's 4-pin headers)?
I get that I will lose the PWM ER benefit, but is there anything else I need to think of or worry about?

I will eventually upgrade to z170 and/or get a PWM controller (Ascendancy?), but until then?
post #440 of 801
No issue. I've been using couple ER fans on a fan controller via VC and works flawless.
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