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[Official] AMD R9 Radeon FURY / NANO / X / Pro DUO FIJI Owners Club - Page 879

post #8781 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

I'm never going back to air for cooling. 77c-82c, there's no way I want that heat dumping into my room. The GPU temps are something that is largely ignored for some reason, but it definitely nothing short of amazing. It keeps the ambient temps low as well as the PC case temps low. It's awesome to finally see my GPU run at the same temperature [sometimes below] a overclocked water cooled CPU.

I just checked my Fury X box and it comes with an HDMI to DVI-SL connector. I personally went with Display Port since offers great sound and quality. What I like about display port over HDMI is that the DP offers great image output, not that HDMI doesn't, but the DP actually "locks" into place. This is much better than VGA\DVI screws and plug with no lock. Sometimes my HDMI cable falls out and I have a hard time plugging it into the monitor.

Umm, so where does the heat go??? eek.gif
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post #8782 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Umm, so where does the heat go??? eek.gif

Lower temps of liquid cooling can lead to lower current leakage. Less leakage = less heat. To a degree.
Less voltage to maintain clocks as well.
When your not pushing heat into the PC case, other components have less thermal stress as well. Which leads to less current used as well.

The exact opposite of this is an old silicon component problem. Thermal run away. With old audio amps, discreet single output transistors were used in "the good old days". This condition was catastrophic. High temps lead to higher current flow which lead to greater heating, etc.... End result, magic blue smoke. Very expensive when your building your own equipment. TO3 3055's were not cheep. mad.gif
Edited by bluezone - 6/13/16 at 4:08pm
post #8783 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Kana-Maru uses his Fury X mainly at stock from how his posts came across to me (I could be wrong).


So I was conveying "out of box" / "stock" scenario, to show HSF vs AIO in a way with max stock VID.

View this Crysis 3 data for my Vapor-X 290X VID for that OC/ROM is 1.30V but MAX VDDC = 1.218V for Crysis 3 load, due to EVV for like DPM state card will run at differing VID/VDDC.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Next Fury X, is at 1.243V in ROM, MAX VDDC is 1.212V, again EVV rules apply.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Now Vapor-X GPU VRM watts = 260W , Fury X GPU VRM watts = 303W.

Yep Fury X is cooler running on AIO but the cooler is better at removing the heat, so I'm not surprised the exhaust air off the 120mm rad feels as hot or hotter than the Vapor-X dumping air in my case and noticing warmth at case fan exhaust.


My goodness dude calm down. First of all, it isn't THAT serious. Secondly, the GPU behaves differently when I'm playing games rather than benchmarking them. There is a "Power Efficiency" mode that allows you to enjoy games without always using the max clock for starters. I always use this settings unless I want constant clocks. Every game doesn't need the core clock running at max either.

Then there is FRTC which can also help lower the power usage and core clocks for those who use it. Then you have some people who undervolt the GPU and that shown to actually increase performance with some Fiji cards. Now enjoy life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Umm, so where does the heat go??? eek.gif

C'mon man. Please don't be that guy. Don't take words out of context.
Edited by Kana-Maru - 6/14/16 at 5:52am
    
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post #8784 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

My goodness dude calm down. First of all, it isn't THAT serious. Secondly, the GPU behaves differently when I'm playing games rather than benchmarking them. There is a "Power Efficiency" mode that allows you to enjoy games without always using the max clock for starters. I always use this settings unless I want constant clocks. Every game doesn't need the core clock running at max either.

Then there is FRTC which can also help lower the power usage and core clocks for those who use it. Then you have some people who undervolt the GPU and that shown to actually increase performance with some Fiji cards. Now enjoy life.

I'm calm smile.gif .

Never said it was THAT serious wink.gif .

"Power Effciency" does not work always that way wink.gif (generally speaking), when I my posted Crysis 3 Fury X HWiNFO screenie (an "off the cuff" test) I looked at the average GPU clock and thought wow my OC is throttling so last night I ran Crysis 3 with MSI AB graphing GPU clock. This was with "Power Efficency" ON smile.gif , if you read the "PowerTune" whitepaper PDF it aims to stick to max clock.


Crysis3_Fury_X_1135_545.zip 12k .zip file


For example PE OFF makes a difference to Heaven/Valley but not 3DM13 and again GPU clock will not be 75% less with PE On in Heaven/Valley. I was recently helping a member with a Nano to tweak ROM, that card does not have "Power Efficiency" toggle in driver page.

Nano / Fury X PE compare (Click to show)
IN2shhw.jpg


So in above compare when card Nano is at loading screens there is clock bounce, on my Fury X with PE ON it's more well behaved. Even when that clock bounce occurs on Nano GPU usage is very low, close to 0%, so I would think the clock bounce is just showing clock change but as GPU is not showing usage it would not be as high a power load as when it is. So even if Nano had PE it could be questionable how much power the card would save when clock bounce occurs but no/low GPU usage.

FRTC I can understand would help but on an another AMD card with HSF it would also help wink.gif .

The only reason why I have stated info is due to member wishing to purchase a Fury X and pointing out he feels 390 adds heat to room, I did not want him to think Fury X is so much cooler that it will not do the same. This is similar to how you would do an article on your site to help viewers to be better informed wink.gif .
Edited by gupsterg - 6/13/16 at 11:34pm
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post #8785 of 11573
If I can add my two cents to the ongoing discussion.

A reference 290X at let's say 275 watts is doing 90C. That blower is pumping the hot near 90C air out the back of the chassis.

A reference FuryX doing over 300 watts has a much more efficient cooler design. It cools that 300 watts more effectively and the core is only reaching let's say 50 degrees. Let's say the exhaust temp of the air coming out of the radiator is 40C.

Although the one card is DISSIPATING more heat. The one card is still dumping hotter air into the room due to its less efficient cooling.

So while the one card is dissipating more in watts. The other card is seemingly dumping hotter air into the room.
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post #8786 of 11573
Interesting point wink.gif, +rep .
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post #8787 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair View Post

If I can add my two cents to the ongoing discussion.

A reference 290X at let's say 275 watts is doing 90C. That blower is pumping the hot near 90C air out the back of the chassis.

A reference FuryX doing over 300 watts has a much more efficient cooler design. It cools that 300 watts more effectively and the core is only reaching let's say 50 degrees. Let's say the exhaust temp of the air coming out of the radiator is 40C.

Although the one card is DISSIPATING more heat. The one card is still dumping hotter air into the room due to its less efficient cooling.

So while the one card is dissipating more in watts. The other card is seemingly dumping hotter air into the room.

Heat eventually has to go somewhere , the energy is not disappearing. However liquid can hold a lot of heat energy for every degree it raises in temperature vs air. Roughly 4x more energy per degree.

The liquid itself is heat storage .. much more effective than storing heat in air. EG to raise a litre of water by 1c takes more energy than raising 1 cubic litre of air by 1c. Couple that with been able to cool the surface better , having far greater metal / air ratio with the radiators vs heat sink and fan and you get the more efficient cooler.

Fury X without watercooling would have been very hot due to HBM and ~ 9 billion Transistors in a small area, raising its TDP due to leakage . Attempting to air cool it could have produced a 350 watt card etc and most likely AMD would have reduced clocks / voltage if they had to stick to air cooling.
Edited by Orthello - 6/14/16 at 2:34am
post #8788 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

I'm calm smile.gif .

Never said it was THAT serious wink.gif .

"Power Effciency" does not work always that way wink.gif (generally speaking), when I my posted Crysis 3 Fury X HWiNFO screenie (an "off the cuff" test) I looked at the average GPU clock and thought wow my OC is throttling so last night I ran Crysis 3 with MSI AB graphing GPU clock. This was with "Power Efficency" ON smile.gif , if you read the "PowerTune" whitepaper PDF it aims to stick to max clock.
.

Every game I play isn't stressing the GPU like Crysis 3 does. Obviously Crysis is known to burn holes in GPUs. You never had to say it was that serious. Your post proves that with pointless details since it won't change my experience at all coming form dual air coolers. At the end of day ALL of those test isn't going to change my experience with air coolers and the water cooler. Period. Just like my opinions on certain situations won't change many minds.

Quote:
This was with "Power Efficency" ON smile.gif , if you read the "PowerTune" whitepaper PDF it aims to stick to max clock.

From my testing, experience and monitoring it "Power Efficiency: DISABLED" causes the GPU to NOT down-clock during Idle situations otherwise the GPU will fluctuate from the smallest hint of video activity. Such as a Youtube activity, ads, Netflix video etc. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a video at all just basic PC usage. This adds unnecessary heat and clocks higher than 300Mhz. It doesn't cause my games to down clock either depending on the title. Some games dip harder than others since not all games stress the GPU.

With "Power Efficiency: ENABLED" the GPU stays at 300Mhz during idle periods and which keeps the heat low and the room cooler. While surfing the web or what YouTube\Netflix etc the GPU stays below 300Mhz. So unless I'm benchmarking I normally leave "Power Efficiency: ENABLED" for the types of games I play . This causes the GPU to fluctuate core clocks so when the game isn't stressing the card there no reason to max the core and the voltage which helps keep heat from what I've seen.

Otherwise I can set the FRTC which helps even more and from there I can down clock since I can enjoy many games that I love to play below 1000Mhz. Every game isn't a "Crysis situation" biggrin.gif < Did anyone cringe, if so, sorry I've been playing a lot of Rainbow Six: Siege lately?

Quote:
The only reason why I have stated info is due to member wishing to purchase a Fury X and pointing out he feels 390 adds heat to room, I did not want him to think Fury X is so much cooler that it will not do the same. This is similar to how you would do an article on your site to help viewers to be better informed wink.gif .

Well as far as I know he's already purchased it. So he'll find out sooner or later. Perhaps it will be just as warm for him. I have no issues with if that turns out to be his experience with the Fury X. It won't my experience either way. I'm pretty sure he understands that the radiator is going to heat up.
Edited by Kana-Maru - 6/14/16 at 9:22am
    
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post #8789 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Nano / Fury X PE compare (Click to show)
IN2shhw.jpg

So in above compare when card Nano is at loading screens there is clock bounce, on my Fury X with PE ON it's more well behaved. Even when that clock bounce occurs on Nano GPU usage is very low, close to 0%, so I would think the clock bounce is just showing clock change but as GPU is not showing usage it would not be as high a power load as when it is. So even if Nano had PE it could be questionable how much power the card would save when clock bounce occurs but no/low GPU usage.

Just wanted to add that when I oc'd my Nano to 1050Mhz with +50% PL, it throttled down only at the first 3DMark test (while not reaching threshold temperature).

When I ran 3DMark2001SE, it throttled very heavily. Maybe because it drawing more and more power, its weird how it works yet at the same time interesting... thumb.gif
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post #8790 of 11573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

Every game I play isn't stressing the GPU like Crysis 3 does. Obviously Crysis is known to burn holes in GPUs. You never had to say it was that serious. Your post proves that with pointless details since it won't change my experience at all coming form dual air coolers. At the end of day ALL of those test isn't going to change my experience with air coolers and the water cooler. Period. Just like my opinions on certain situations won't change many minds.

I picked Crysis 3 due to having the data on Hawaii, I did that data for a post on hexus.net where a member months ago was wondering on temps/power consumption prior to buying card. To me & him C3 was a max real world scenario rather than doing Furmark / Kombustor / OCCT (which I never run on a GPU).

Recently for several days I had also been pondering viewing data and comparing it with Fury X as I just wanted to know, as you can tell from the screenie date done prior to this subject coming up in thread AFAIK.

I'm not out to change your opinion wink.gif . I'm just discussing topic that has been presented in thread smile.gif . We can post ideas / thoughts / opinions / experience / data , this may help any of us or not and it is our choice if from the posts it changes our view or enlightens us smile.gif and it may not wink.gif .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

From my testing, experience and monitoring it "Power Efficiency: DISABLED" causes the GPU to down-clock during Idle situations otherwise the GPU will fluctuate from the smallest hint of video activity. Such as a Youtube activity, ads, Netflix video etc. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a video at all just basic PC usage. This adds unnecessary heat and clocks higher than 300Mhz. It doesn't cause my games to down clock either depending on the title. Some games dip harder than others since not all games stress the GPU.

The bold text I disagree with. The GPU is down clocking is not because of PE=Off but just due to how PowerTune work. Rest of your text is why Power Efficiency is in driver, it used not be available to us in earlier drivers and by default it was on. This clock bounce at hint of GPU activity was one gripe I had with Hawaii, hence after experiencing Fury X it was another reason to keep card. Power Efficiency toggle pretty much came about when clock blocker arrived on the web, the creation of clock blocker happened due to a thread on AMD community forum regarding display corruption on Fury and a member was author of it. So AMD released drivers with PE toggle so GPU will maintain highest clock for certain scenarios where PowerTune was hindering them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kana-Maru View Post

With "Power Efficiency: ENABLED" the GPU stays below 300Mhz during idle periods and which keeps the heat low and the room cooler.

Unless you have modded the ROM, GPU can never be lower than 300MHz as DPM 0 in all stock ROMs is 300MHz, even with PE=On.
Edited by gupsterg - 6/14/16 at 8:58am
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The Stilt Machine
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Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
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Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
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