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[Forbes] Nvidia Explains Why Their G-Sync Display Tech Is Superior To AMD's FreeSync - Page 41  

post #401 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlugSeven View Post

I did not overlook anything, the leaked driver shows they're working on it and I made no claims about how well it works.Again, that which makes it possible for mobile gsync to work(sought of) is that which makes desktop adaptive sync vrr.possible.It is essentially the same tech.

well claiming nvidia could simply
Quote:
just have to add support for at the minimal cost of software manhours while keeping their gsync all to themselves
looks like you are assuming it is working w/o any problems.

as i keep repeating the hardware is different - it was easy for amd to accomplish the same with a laptop scaler/TCON to demostate their idea. but they still needed to push through the option for VESA to support vblanking on DP1.2a for desktops. however that still didn't accomplish a one driver modification for all since each scaler needs to pass it's certification.

i'm saying it's not as easy as it appears you think it is.
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post #402 of 708
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Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

Guess I have to repeat what I already said. The tearing is not visible to the human eye on a properly configured PC. You can get unlucky and have a badly made BIOS, drivers, or other hardware components and be stuck with it though.

If the GPU sends a new frame to the monitor while the monitor is already scanning out the current frame, that transition is going to cause a frame tear, whether you think it is visible or not. Changing the mouse is not going to change when the GPU sends that new frame, and that is the only thing that affects whether there is a frame tear. The only way to prevent tearing is to synchronize the GPU and the monitor, either through Vsync or variable refresh. You can deny it all you want, and claim whatever placebo effect you choose, but no sync == frame tearing.
post #403 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

I know what tearing looks like. I've used computers since the DOS days. It's not visible to the human eye on a properly configured PC with 2 DPC latency and 0 programs in program manager except Nvidia driver along with HPET off, Win defender off, and other relevant settings.

This statement indicates that you don't understand how displays work.
post #404 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post

This statement indicates that you don't understand how displays work.

No, it indicates you can't read what I already told you 4000 times, that on a properly configured PC, the tearing isn't visible to the human eye. If you have 4 graphics cards and a bunch of shovelware like MSI afterburner installed, like most people on this forum, the tearing is much more apparent.

Your ridiculous statement claiming that it's impossible for an image to appear fluid and not choppy with vsync off is the same thing as saying no display technology on earth can appear fluid since it's a slide show of still frames, and those still frames aren't moving, so there's no way stacking a bunch on top of each other can be a fluid image!

Those still frames are by definition choppy, yet you believe they are a fluid image when played back, it's the same difference. The level of vsync chop on a properly configured PC is so low to non-existent, there is literally no perceptable difference with vsync on except more lag.

Just because you can't replicate that performance on your PC, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of computers out there where vsync on and vsync off looks basically identical in a game.
Edited by r0ach - 3/28/15 at 4:37pm
post #405 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by 47 Knucklehead View Post

And what do you get for that $22 "OMG, nVidia is so damn expensive" price?
What you don't get, is locked into a proprietary standard called G-Sync...


And honestly, ifyou are getting <40FPS in a game, buy a better graphics card.
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post #406 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

No, it indicates you can't read what I already told you 4000 times, that on a properly configured PC, the tearing isn't visible to the human eye. If you have 4 graphics cards and a bunch of shovelware like MSI afterburner installed, like most people on this forum, the tearing is much more apparent.

Your ridiculous statement claiming that it's impossible for an image to appear fluid and not choppy with vsync off is the same thing as saying no display technology on earth can appear fluid since it's a slide show of still frames, and those still frames aren't moving, so there's no way stacking a bunch on top of each other can be a fluid image!

Those still frames are by definition choppy, yet you believe they are a fluid image when played back, it's the same difference. The level of vsync chop on a properly configured PC is so low to non-existent, there is literally no perceptable difference with vsync on except more lag.

Tearing has absolutely zero to do with what information you're putting in. You can have all the shovelware you like, and a 80 FPS source will still have tearing at 60 Hz. And yes, it is visible. Humans are very good at spotting vernier errors, which is precisely what a frame tear looks like.

Be careful what you mean when you say "fluid and not choppy" - you can have it not be choppy, but also have half the image displaced due to the frame tear. Stutter and tearing are two different problems, and have two different causes. By conflating the two, you make a technically inaccurate argument.

Vsync can remove tearing completely, but it does so at the penalty of increased input lag and the possibility of stuttering. Turning off vsync removes the possibility of display-induced stutter (but not engine stutter), but forces tearing to happen at any framerate other than the display refresh rate. And that tearing is a simple factor SOLELY of the mismatch between the display refresh and the GPU framerate. There is no display technology in the world that can avoid tearing when a display's refresh rate is mismatched to the source framerate. There is no setting you can adjust, no bloatware you can get rid of, no graphics card configuration to get rid of it. Increasing refresh rate can mitigate the problem, by decreasing the magnitude of the offset caused by the tear, but you cannot eliminate it.
post #407 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

If the GPU sends a new frame to the monitor while the monitor is already scanning out the current frame, that transition is going to cause a frame tear, whether you think it is visible or not. Changing the mouse is not going to change when the GPU sends that new frame, and that is the only thing that affects whether there is a frame tear. The only way to prevent tearing is to synchronize the GPU and the monitor, either through Vsync or variable refresh. You can deny it all you want, and claim whatever placebo effect you choose, but no sync == frame tearing.

It's not always viable though. In BF4 i only notice it when i next to a wall and turn very fast. On the open i cant see tearing at all.
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post #408 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0ach View Post

No, it indicates you can't read what I already told you 4000 times, that on a properly configured PC, the tearing isn't visible to the human eye. If you have 4 graphics cards and a bunch of shovelware like MSI afterburner installed, like most people on this forum, the tearing is much more apparent.

Your ridiculous statement claiming that it's impossible for an image to appear fluid and not choppy with vsync off is the same thing as saying no display technology on earth can appear fluid since it's a slide show of still frames, and those still frames aren't moving, so there's no way stacking a bunch on top of each other can be a fluid image!

Those still frames are by definition choppy, yet you believe they are a fluid image when played back, it's the same difference. The level of vsync chop on a properly configured PC is so low to non-existent, there is literally no perceptable difference with vsync on except more lag.

Just because you can't replicate that performance on your PC, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of computers out there where vsync on and vsync off looks basically identical in a game.

Saying choppy sounds more like you are talking about uneven frame times, not frame tearing. Are you sure you are talking about the same thing? You can have the most fluid game performance on the planet and still get frame tears.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

It's not always viable though. In BF4 i only notice it when i next to a wall and turn very fast. On the open i cant see tearing at all.

Yes, turning rapidly is the easiest way to see it. But even standing still it is still happening, you just can't see it because the image is the same in both frames. Higher frame rates also help, because the difference between the frames will be smaller and the tear less noticeable. And some people just don't notice it, just like some people aren't sensitive to aliasing. But saying you can eliminate it by stopping background tasks is just wrong.
Edited by Forceman - 3/28/15 at 4:55pm
post #409 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-nefer View Post

What you don't get, is locked into a proprietary standard called G-Sync...


And honestly, ifyou are getting <40FPS in a game, buy a better graphics card.

Dude, no offense, but someone who is rocking 2 GTX 680's, a 21" CRT and a 19" old LCD telling me what I should be doing (a GTX 980, a ROG Swift, and a 1440p IPS second monitor), is pretty comical.

I'm just saying.
post #410 of 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Saying choppy sounds more like you are talking about uneven frame times, not frame tearing. Are you sure you are talking about the same thing? You can have the most fluid game performance on the planet and still get frame tears.



Yes, turning rapidly is the easiest way to see it. But even standing still it is still happening, you just can't see it because the image is the same in both frames.

Playing FC4 right now with my Dell U2711 IPS panel. For the love of God i cant get it to Tear @ 70-80 fps. I turned V-Sync ON to see if i get any difference and still looks the same. Nothing wrong with G-Sync and Free Sync but i dont think games these days Tear the same way as old game engines.
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