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Why software is useless for reading voltages - Page 4

post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALT F4 View Post


The "if it ain't broke don't fix it" logic applies mostly to things that won't start an electrical fire and burn your families home down. thumb.gif I understand the posters issue is not the highest fire risk, so I can see why you are telling him to leave it alone.

What other way, besides with a multimeter, could you check if your power supply is providing 12.00v to the 12v rail? I am curious because I want to know what tools I can use to see if my power supply is delivering the proper voltages since software readings are not viable.

You could always peek in there and count them.

1 volt, 2 volts, 3 volts, etc...
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post #32 of 43

Well, what do you want to do about it? I really doubt an oscilloscope and SMPS output analysis knowledge is something every other PC enthusiast has, hence, if it works and it is in warranty, leave it alone. You will not be able to get any useful data with a DMM other than 'Yup, it's turned on and working, as my working PC seems to indicate'; as you would not have a normally functioning PC with average voltages out of spec. Which is pretty much all you can measure with a DMM.

   
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post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyaems View Post

Just want to share what I did earlier with regards to my PSU, since it is in similar topic anyway!

The 12v on my PSU fluctuates really bad when checking HWInfo64 while playing games or stressing. From 12.250v it sometimes goes down up to 11.6-ish volts. I'm using an "ancient" Seasonic X760 by the way. I also swapped cables from custom sleeved to stock, and it still does the same thing.

It worries me if that is actually true, because I don't feel like buying another hardware at this point of time. Although if I stress only my processor, the 12v reading on the software still stays the same- 12.250v. I wondered if my GPU actually eats that huge of a power to make my PSU's 12v drop up to 11.6v.

So I went and borrowed a DMM, and did the "molex" method on getting the 12v rating while playing, stressing, or benching. I used that method since it is not possible to measure 12v if I'm going to use the 24-pin because the GPU won't be using any load.

During idle the 12v on the DMM shows at 12.16v, and during load (playing games) the DMM is also showing 12.16v, but sometimes it drops to 12.15v. On HWInfo64, it still does what I usually see-- 12.250v during zero or light load, and it drops to ~11.6v during load.

The DMM I used is fairly cheap though, but I think it is accurate enough for me to trust since I measured a 32-ohm headphone and the DMM's readings over around that range.

software told me the same low voltage on my current psu which is 5 years old now and I was getting those bad software readings 2 years ago when I checked with my multimeter.
so the software told me 2 years ago that my psu had very low 12v, 11.25v is what it showed under load, multimeter showed 12.10v under load and sometimes showed 11.98v under load.
I would have replaced my psu 2 years ago if I trusted the software, thats why I only use a multimeter now.
Edited by jlhawn - 3/27/15 at 2:11pm
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post #34 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Well, what do you want to do about it? I really doubt an oscilloscope and SMPS output analysis knowledge is something every other PC enthusiast has, hence, if it works and it is in warranty, leave it alone. You will not be able to get any useful data with a DMM other than 'Yup, it's turned on and working, as my working PC seems to indicate'; as you would not have a normally functioning PC with average voltages out of spec. Which is pretty much all you can measure with a DMM.

When doing a hardware volt mod (i.e. graphite pencil), you do want to check your voltage with a DMM!
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post #35 of 43
You are dealing with the fact that all these boards use different hardware monitoring chips and implementations of these chips.

I have seen some that match my meter perfectly and others that are all over the place.

The CPU temp in these programs have the same issue, just because the chip getting the data thinks this is the cpu temperature(lets say first sensor on the chip) does not mean the board maker used that input. This software is almost trying to guess what is what(again I would think it is based on what input/channel on the monitoring chip is being used).

You are 100% right about too many people only believing these. I have seen users told to replace a power supply because the 12 volt rail was reading 4 volts. Yeah, chances are the system would not be working in this condition(slow fans and the hard drive may not even spin up(at least not if it uses 12 volts) under such voltage.).
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post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

When doing a hardware volt mod (i.e. graphite pencil), you do want to check your voltage with a DMM!
Yeah, even a custom bios means software readings are not useful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nukemaster View Post

You are dealing with the fact that all these boards use different hardware monitoring chips and implementations of these chips.

I have seen some that match my meter perfectly and others that are all over the place.

The CPU temp in these programs have the same issue, just because the chip getting the data thinks this is the cpu temperature(lets say first sensor on the chip) does not mean the board maker used that input. This software is almost trying to guess what is what(again I would think it is based on what input/channel on the monitoring chip is being used).

You are 100% right about too many people only believing these. I have seen users told to replace a power supply because the 12 volt rail was reading 4 volts. Yeah, chances are the system would not be working in this condition(slow fans and the hard drive may not even spin up(at least not if it uses 12 volts) under such voltage.).

So you've seen many users replace power supplies without properly troubleshooting it multiple times and you haven't helped any of them? biggrin.gif Nice guy you are tongue.gif

If all those people did not use other troubleshooting methods and instruments then either they were a bit foolish. I know what you are saying though, it would be quite obvious if the 12v rail was actually at 4v. Same with the sensors and different chips/softwares.
Edited by ALT F4 - 3/28/15 at 12:09am
post #37 of 43
Did they fix that Corsair Link issue where the numbers were just flat out wrong? Where it used to say an idling computer was using 700W+ on a 450W unit? Or that the CPU in was getting 6V+?
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post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Well, what do you want to do about it? I really doubt an oscilloscope and SMPS output analysis knowledge is something every other PC enthusiast has, hence, if it works and it is in warranty, leave it alone. You will not be able to get any useful data with a DMM other than 'Yup, it's turned on and working, as my working PC seems to indicate'; as you would not have a normally functioning PC with average voltages out of spec. Which is pretty much all you can measure with a DMM.

When doing a hardware volt mod (i.e. graphite pencil), you do want to check your voltage with a DMM!

 

...you have a point! :p

 

It's the only time when I actually stick a DMM to a board. But then again, when doing that I tend to solder test connectors so I can have either a scope or a DMM hooked permanently for the length of the session, in a reliable manner.

   
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post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALT F4 View Post

So you've seen many users replace power supplies without properly troubleshooting it multiple times and you haven't helped any of them? biggrin.gif Nice guy you are tongue.gif

If all those people did not use other troubleshooting methods and instruments then either they were a bit foolish. I know what you are saying though, it would be quite obvious if the 12v rail was actually at 4v. Same with the sensors and different chips/softwares.
Those are older posts, way past new help. When I see this in an active post, I always explain it just like in my post here. I even had screen shots of working/accurate vs non working software(different boards).

Another current trend seems to be telling people that "only" seasonic power supplies are good(while they are among the best, many others are more than upto the task.).
That kind of falls in with the IPS is the only LCD panel type worth buying no matter what your use is.
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post #40 of 43
Personally not a big fan of CPUID HWmonitor.

Though when it comes to reading voltages, the most important value is not wrong. When it comes to your CPU voltage, what you set in the Bios, is not what the chip actually will run at. With Vdroop, it will actually load a decent amount less than what is set in the bios. And only the Load Line setting will change how much the Vdroop effects your chip.


I always use CPU-Z for CPU VCore measuring, but both programs will give you the same data. Doing so is a must when it comes to gauging in a proper CPU overclock.


Never use something like HWmonitor for testing out a power supply, never have and never will. Best to both stress test and check with a multimeter, if you find your PSU questionable.
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Intel Core i7 2600K @4.8ghz Asrock p67 Extreme4 R9 290 with EK 290x Block 1200/1600 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 11-11-11-30 2133MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
3x 640 WD blacks Raid 0 Samsung 470 Series 128GB SSD Mushkin Enhanced Reactor 512GB SSD XSPC Raystorm 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Windows 8.1 64bit X-Star 1440p @96hz PLANAR SA2311W Acer GD235HZ 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G110 TX850 HAF922 Logitech G500 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Creative Sound Blaster Z  Klipsch Synergy B-20 & Dayton Audio SUB-800 Yamaha HTR-5790 Audio Technica ATH-A700 headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Q9550 @ 4GHZ Gigabyte EP45 UD3P GTX470 4GB OCZ Reaper 1150mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Blue 500gb OCZ Vertex 2 60GB LG Bluray Corsair H50 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Home Premium  Logitech K400 Corsair CX500 nMEDIAPC 6000B 
AudioOtherOtherOther
Yamaha HTR-5063 PS3 80GB BC PS3 with 250GB hard drive. Polk Audio Monitor 60s Bi-AMP Front Polk Audio Monitor 30s Rear 
OtherOther
Polk Audio CS1 Center Polk Audio PSW10 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Xeon Harpertown 3.6ghz Asus P5Q SE/R HD7770 4GB DDR2 800mhz Corsair 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 5TB Toshiba 2TB Hitachi 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOS
2TB Seagate 2TB Western Digital 1TB Hitachi Windows Home Server 2011 
Power
Corsair CX500 
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