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post #31 of 61
I'm suggesting you get both, SSD first.
post #32 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post

I'm suggesting you get both, SSD first.

You're suggesting I get just a SSD for now and I'm telling you that 120GB won't be sufficient for her to start with and 250GB will push the build cost up too much. So if it has to be one or the other, which it does really, it will have to be the HDD first.

I would like to include a SSD and it might be worth including just a 120GB for the OS and programs, as well as the 1TB HDD for everything else but even a 120GB is going to cost £40+ and it's not sensible to go down to 60GB for minimal savings and that £40, or most of it anyway, would have to be made up by savings elsewhere and the only real saving that could be made is by getting a cheaper motherboard that I'm not entirely comfortable with.

Considering that SSD prices are likely to come down and it's a damn sight harder to replace the motherboard if I call it wrong than it is to add a SSD later, the motherboard takes priority as far as I'm concerned.

I recommended a 27" IPS monitor for my sister but sadly that's gone from £159 to £216 since yesterday, so I'll have to keep an eye out for another deal for her. She won't need it until I finish the build anyway, so there's no rush and hopefully something will come along in the meantime.
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post #33 of 61
I still don't quite understand why you want her to have a Z97 motherboard in case she upgrades her processor in two or three years. A cheaper motherboard and SSD makes much more sense for now. If/when your sister decides she wants to game, her components will allow her to game. If she wants more performance, used Z97 motherboards and i5-4690Ks should be fairly affordable in a couple years. She would need a video card anyway so she's making a substantial investment if she ever decides she wants to game. Might a well get the best configuration for today rather than a couple years from now.
post #34 of 61
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Well as you say, she'll be able to play at least some games with the G3258, so it only means spending £100-150 on a graphics card. If she later has to spend £100-150 on an i5 and heatsink, then at least the spending is spread out in stages and doesn't seem so daunting.

I'm not really keen on buying s/h components, particular one's that have probably been overclocked and it's quite a pain having to swap over the motherboard and try and sell it. I know I'd probably have to remove the motherboard from the case to mount a third-party heatsink suitable for overclocking an i5-4690k but at least when I put it back in, I won't have to mess around with uninstalling old drivers and installing new ones where the NIC, soundcard, etc are using different components, so it's less hassle.

I've got the total cost with the Z97 Pro 4 down to £284 now by saving a few quid on the CPU and RAM with flubit (and if they offer me a better price for the motherboard, that'll go down a bit more), so that's close enough to the £267 I quoted my sister not to be a problem and we can add a SSD in the near future, when hopefully they're a bit cheaper, so it's not like getting the more expensive motherboard means her system will have to stay without a SSD. OK, I could get a £50 motherboard and put the £36 saved towards a SSD but as I'd rather get her a 256GB than a 120GB (better value for money and write speeds) and they're currently about £75, it still wouldn't be possible without pushing the cost over £320, which is a big jump from £267 and I doubt I'll be able to make my sister understand what she's paying an extra £53 for. Once she's used the system with just a HDD for a while and I put a SSD in there, she'll notice the difference and appreciate the benefits much more I think.
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post #35 of 61
Your logic just doesn't make sense to me. I've given my input. You might as well just buy what you want since you deflect a majority of the advice.
post #36 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post

Your logic just doesn't make sense to me. I've given my input. You might as well just buy what you want since you deflect a majority of the advice.

Well I'm looking for advice on components, not to be told what to do. I know my sister's situation and I'm responsible for deciding what to buy for her, so just because our priorities might be different doesn't mean I don't appreciate the input, which I obviously do as I've changed several of the components from my original build as a result.

I'm still not sure whether to get the WD Blue or the Toshiba 7200RPM that PontiacGTX suggested http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca100 Obviously the latter will be faster, which will matter initially until I get a SSD but then won't really be that important. Reliability is my main concern and so I wonder which is the best in that respect? The Amazon reviews definitely show a higher proportion of 1-star reviews for the Toshiba but the total number of reviews is much lower as well, so it might not mean much.
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post #37 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by doveman View Post

Well I'm looking for advice on components, not to be told what to do. I know my sister's situation and I'm responsible for deciding what to buy for her, so just because our priorities might be different doesn't mean I don't appreciate the input, which I obviously do as I've changed several of the components from my original build as a result.

I'm still not sure whether to get the WD Blue or the Toshiba 7200RPM that PontiacGTX suggested http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca100 Obviously the latter will be faster, which will matter initially until I get a SSD but then won't really be that important. Reliability is my main concern and so I wonder which is the best in that respect? The Amazon reviews definitely show a higher proportion of 1-star reviews for the Toshiba but the total number of reviews is much lower as well, so it might not mean much.

Well the problem is that you, me, and everyone else has their hands tied behind our backs.

If you want my opinions on your build/parts then here it is. It is 100% crap.

All you are doing with your build is you are giving your sister a very under powered computer by today's standards.

I truly understand that you want to give your sister a good foundation to build upon, but you do not even have the budget to accomplish that.

A legitimately good motherboard would be something like the asrock extreme 4, MSI GD65, or the Asus z97-AR. Those are genuinely good motherboards that have stood the test of time. But all of those motherboards blow your budget by a considerable amount.

Every other motherboard below that level has somehow cut corners in quality to bring a cheap crappy product to market.


The motherboard alone is half the budget, and the motherboard ONLY makes sense if your sister turns out to be a hard core gamer. And even then, I would say to hold off until the new intel chips come out.

If your sister does anything other than gaming, then what you are doing and what you are buying is an absolute waste because the z97 chipset and processors will probably be EOL (end of life) probably be the end of this year which means that you will not be able to upgrade your cpu with a new cpu. You can always buy a used CPU if you want, but if you are OK buying used stuff, then you should just go out and buy old socket 1366 gear and just build your sister a gaming power house right out of the gate.
Edited by Tjj226 Angel - 3/28/15 at 7:42pm
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post #38 of 61
Now you're just splitting hairs. The difference in performance for 1TB HDDs doesn't really matter. If you're that concerned about performance, just get a SSD. Sure 120/128GB SSDs have slightly worse performance than higher capacities, but your sister isn't going to notice. When you think about it, spending roughly 20% of the eventual cost on a SSD seems kind of silly, which is what you would be doing with a 250/256GB SSD. Then again, getting a Z97 motherboard to overclock a G3258 is also a tad silly.

In a budget build, you make sacrifices and cut corners to get the best performance out of the money you're spending. I just don't feel like you're doing that with a Z97 motherboard, even if it's for a hypothetical upgrade that's probably not going to happen. And if it does, the money is better spent on a video card. I just don't see how you'll be able to convince your sister spending half of what she's spending now on a single component down the road will get her into gaming.
post #39 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

Well the problem is that you, me, and everyone else has their hands tied behind our backs.

If you want my opinions on your build/parts then here it is. It is 100% crap.

All you are doing with your build is you are giving your sister a very under powered computer by today's standards.

I truly understand that you want to give your sister a good foundation to build upon, but you do not even have the budget to accomplish that.

A legitimately good motherboard would be something like the asrock extreme 4, MSI GD65, or the Asus z97-AR. Those are genuinely good motherboards that have stood the test of time. But all of those motherboards blow your budget by a considerable amount.

Every other motherboard below that level has somehow cut corners in quality to bring a cheap crappy product to market.


The motherboard alone is half the budget, and the motherboard ONLY makes sense if your sister turns out to be a hard core gamer. And even then, I would say to hold off until the new intel chips come out.

If your sister does anything other than gaming, then what you are doing and what you are buying is an absolute waste because the z97 chipset and processors will probably be EOL (end of life) probably be the end of this year which means that you will not be able to upgrade your cpu with a new cpu. You can always buy a used CPU if you want, but if you are OK buying used stuff, then you should just go out and buy old socket 1366 gear and just build your sister a gaming power house right out of the gate.

So the G3258 and the ASRock Z97 PRO4 that PontiacGTX suggested are 100% crap are they? What's so underpowered about an overclocked G3258, plenty of people seem to be quite satisfied, if not amazed, by them? One minute I'm being told I don't need a quad-core for gaming, then I'm being told a dual-core is no good for non-gaming!

Flubit have offered me the Z97 Pro4 for £77, so with a total build cost of £274 that's hardly "half the budget". Even at the full Scan price of £86 it isn't.

Even if the i5-4690k is EOL by the end of 2016, they're not just going to throw them all away are they? So maybe there'll be some good deals in a year or two and if it's the only option and she needs to upgrade, we can consider buying s/h then but I (and more importantly my sister) want to start with new components with warranty.
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post #40 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessmyantidrug View Post

Now you're just splitting hairs. The difference in performance for 1TB HDDs doesn't really matter. If you're that concerned about performance, just get a SSD. Sure 120/128GB SSDs have slightly worse performance than higher capacities, but your sister isn't going to notice. When you think about it, spending roughly 20% of the eventual cost on a SSD seems kind of silly, which is what you would be doing with a 250/256GB SSD. Then again, getting a Z97 motherboard to overclock a G3258 is also a tad silly.

In a budget build, you make sacrifices and cut corners to get the best performance out of the money you're spending. I just don't feel like you're doing that with a Z97 motherboard, even if it's for a hypothetical upgrade that's probably not going to happen. And if it does, the money is better spent on a video card. I just don't see how you'll be able to convince your sister spending half of what she's spending now on a single component down the road will get her into gaming.

How am I splitting hairs? I just asked whether there's any benefit, in both speed and reliability, in getting the 7200RPM Toshiba rather than the WD Blue as I thought that was 5600RPM but having just checked, it seems that's 7200RPM as well, so the speed isn't an issue, just reliability..

Your last sentence doesn't make much sense to me. If I get a cheaper motherboard now, then the cost of the graphics card, if my sister gets one, will probably be more than half of what she's spending now, so if anything that would make it harder to convince her. Maybe a CPU upgrade won't be necessary for whatever she wants to do but at least with the Z97 Pro4 the option's there if needed, as well as the extra PCI slots and M.2, so it seems daft to cut off those upgrade paths to save £30-40 on the motherboard.
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