Originally Posted by epic1337
to point out, 6core Zen should stay around $150 otherwise it won't be any better on our cause, why? offering prices near parity doesn't give us crap, look at Nvidia cards (except GTX970).
and as for all these things, i'm not even hoping for parity for haswell, heck i'd settle for parity with sandy bridge so long as it's priced 10%~20% more cost effective than piledriver.
You really think AMD has consumer best interest in mind ?
They have there own interest in mind first... remember launch of FX-9590 , how much did it cost at first 600$ or something stupid like that.
Nether AMD or Intel are your friends ... amd is selling cheap because they have to... if they get semi competitive CPU they will price them along side intels prices.
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa
Because AMD with Zen changes design paradigm, the whole core is being redone from the ground with a focus on ST performance, its logic gets almost doubled vs BD famiy etc while intel usually just polishes fine details. Expectations are day and night for those very specific reasons, nothing to do with fan groups.
This is what I expect too. There is no reason for AMD to follow Intel's segmentation like that. On the contrary, by offering their full range with hyperthreading enabled,they put pressure to intel from entry level all the way to desktop i5.
One of the main reasons AMD is going SMT is so they will not have to sell their multicore chips so cheap ,ever again. Really, If you expect 6C/12T Zen to retail for around 150, be prepared for huge disappointment. At least you should not be surprised when you see them going for double that amount. Hell, even top of the line Thubans used to retail for nearly 300 just fine,not too long ago.
And when i say 4 core 4 thread cpu ofc it is SMT chip it just has chip logic that handles additional threads disabled... just like with i5s.
Ok maybe it wont happen like that... maybe they offer FX AM4 zen chips as pure CPU chips, every single one with full SMT and start with really high performance and price points, that is sound strategy, offer same cores with more threads in mid range segment ... lets say they start at 200$ with 4 core 8 thread chips... that implies that sub 200$ will be left over to 2core 4 thread APUs. It makes sense i agree and is possibility.MY POINT is that people unrealistically expect AMD to give them cheap 6 and 8 cores (12 to 16 threads) ... 6 core zen with SMT for 150$ ? I wish, but i would not hope for that because you will be disappointed. Double that number to curb your enthusiasm Original buldozer 8 core chips were priced close to sandy bridge i7 chips and that was with failure design... again remember original FX-9590 pricing ? 500 or 600$ or something like that.
If AMD makes something better and want to compete thought entire high end desktop market they will want to compete with intel extreme platform. 8 core 16 thread chips will be priced to compete with that. Ok maybe they will try to undercut them by huge margin and if zen is good intel drops prices resulting in overal 30% cheaper chips but it are still far higher prices then what people expect here.I can guarantee you if AMD has good design on ZEN cpus they will sell them for MUCH more then they are selling buldozer and piledriver CPUs.
.. sure maybe they will sell 8core 16 thead cpu for 400$ or something like that but it will probably be with VERY low clocks. They will probably have same CPU with much higher clocks and overclock sealing selling for double that amount example:
Lets assume average stock clocks of zen (for entire family of chips) is 3.5ghz.
They sell 3.3ghz 8core 16 thread for 399$
But also they might have 4.5ghz 8core 16 thread of same chip for 599$ ++ ... same chip just heavily overclocked (above 95tdp) to compete with Intels highest performance chips on extreme x99 or 109 platforms.
Again that is if AMD wants to compete for entire desktop market... if zen is really good design (not better then intel but close). If they only want to compete with regular i7 chips with 8 core 16 thread chips (vs 4 core 8 thread i7) then they are doomed and zen will probably be only slightly less of an disappointment then buldozer. I hope that that doesnt happen. I hope that 4core 8 thread Zen will be close to 4core 8thread intel, slightly slower but cheaper a bit higher then regular i5s in price but cheaper then i7s offering extra threads over i5s and lower price then i7s... intel has small gap there i think AMD they will strike there hard.Edited by Stormscion - 5/20/15 at 7:46am